Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00106)

Friday, July 13, 2001

Re: some pages from Theosophical HISTORY

OPINIONS vs. FACTS


Dear Friends:

There appear to be some misinterpretations floating around that
serve as irritants.

Those irritants do not seem to arise from any actual study of
what individuals did or wrote, but have arisen from what
secondary writers have brought forward as their opinions and
conclusions.

Let us look at THEOSOPHY as a body of knowledge, the result of
many millions of years of study and observation by great MINDS to
whom a general designation was given "THE GREAT WHITE LODGE."

In our consideration it is THEOSOPHY that has drawn us together
and focused our interest. The particular society or group to
which we have been drawn represents one of the "vehicles" for the
study of and the dissemination of THEOSOPHY.

Theosophy teaches brotherhood. And this is based on the concept
that all Spirit-Souls are immortals and are on a common
pilgrimage. This trek is directed towards the individual and
conjoint discovery of facts and truths in Nature. Science is
seen to uncover facts embedded in Nature [ Nature already
contains everything, and operates under law.] We are all
confronted with ethical and moral issues. The basis is the
equation of "selfishness," vs. "unselfishness." It has been
expressed: "Is selfishness ever justified?"

Let us say that (as H.P.Blavatsky writes herself) this was
offered to see if at the present time, mankind was ready to
receive an infusion of some of the basic tenets of the UNIVERSAL
WISDOM OF THE AGES (known in India as the SANATANA DHARMA -
Sanskrit, or in Buddhist traditions as the SANATANO DHAMMO -
Pali). In other words was the ethico-moral concept a universal
fact and did it run under exact laws? What is evolving in Man as
his conscience?

To make these answers clear, H.P.Blavatsky in The SECRET DOCTRINE
offers at the outset the basic details of three propositions or
"fundamentals." ( S D I pp. 14 -19 )

1.	SPACE (as a symbol for SPIRIT or UNIVERSAL PERFECTION)
contains all forms and beings. It has no comparative relation to
the limitations and forms of matter (whether visible or
invisible). It exists eternally and universally as the CAUSELESS
CAUSE and the SOURCE OF ALL.
Within its limitlessness manifestations and evolutionary process
roll out, live, interact, and the roll back into THAT. This
process is cyclic and endless.

Since this one PRINCIPLE is not to be defined, it is posited that
it continually exists whether there is manifestation of
non-manifestation. To It was the term THE ABSOLUTE or
ABSOLUTENESS applied. It is both THE SOURCE and THE CAUSE
WITHOUT QUALIFICATIONS. The term META-SPIRIT has also been used
for IT.

In ancient texts it is said that: "Spirit is the first
manifestation with which came Matter and Mind."

2.	Cycles of coming and going, of revolution and time, imply LAW
working within certain limits. In terms of beginning this is
also without definition since it is co-eternal with SPACE. It
may be symbolized as "THE GREAT BREATH." The word KARMA has been
used to indicate immutable effects that follow all causes.

3.	SPACE, and CYCLES together with alternating manifestation and
non-manifestation, imply that every form is an aspect of MATTER.

MATTER ( a temporary aggregation of forms and limits ) is implied
the moment one conceives of "the rolling out of a manifesting
system under the impulse of THE GREAT BREATH." The multitude of
"forms" imply a certain intelligence resides in and is associated
with them.

4.	CAUSALITY is required to explain this situation (one in which
we are all involved) where SPACE, TIME, MOTION and EXISTENCE as
CONSCIOUSNESS and SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS are to be found conjoined in
a series of intelligent, interactive, cooperative beings.
EVOLUTION of Intelligence within appropriate forms of matter is
posited, and examples of this may be found all around us.

5.	The WISE ONES, investigating (S D I p. 272-3), concluded
that the UNIVERSE was INTELLIGENT and SENTIENT as a WHOLE.
Further that every component was a ray of the one SPIRIT
indissolubly linked to a speck of primordial MATTER. The term
MONAD is used, implying SPIRIT IN EVOLUTION AND COATED WITH
MATTER.

Between these two polar opposites, their interplay was observed
by the third factor of LIFE: MIND as an intelligent part of the
MONAD in evolution. These are the triadic MONADS which are the
true building blocks everywhere in Nature (the Universe). These
are held to be intelligent, and do not die when their substance
is dissipated from time to time. In them resides a continuing
CONSCIOUSNESS. This individual and unitary consciousness is that
which informs every "atom," as well as every "human being." After
aeons of experience in all the many departments, classes and
planes of Nature every MONAD emerges into the 'Human" stage. In
this it develops SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS and a perception of the
Universe as a plenum (a living, reacting whole).


These basic ideas will be found to pervade and form the basis of
every one of the world religions of the present and the past.
They lie at the hart of all the theogonies, myths, legends, and
traditions


Let us look at the survey that H.P.Blavatsky has offered to us.
It is large and would take a good year to thoroughly work and
read through. Actual study and correlation such as done by de
Zircov took many years and involved the devoted labors of a
number of cooperating students. His efforts can be seen in the
series BLAVATSKY: COLLECTED WORKS. This covers biographical
events and the actual reprinting of H.P.Blavatsky's words. It is
a most useful reference work.

Let us also look at the survey provided to us by Dara Eklund of
Mr. W. Q. Judge's writings, and this also includes biographical
material. She reproduced his many articles and other writings in
a series titles ECHOES OF THE ORIENT. It would take a few months
to go through this thoroughly.

It is only when an individual student has made some effort to
ascertain for himself the nature of the concepts and their
presentation that they will have some basis for making a decision
concerning an individual such as those who are mentioned in this
set of comments.

We cannot converse with them. We can only consult the flow of
documents they have left us.

Let our conclusions rest on the nature of the PRIMARY teachings
we can study for ourselves, and let us not rely on second hand
opinions. The very fact that we have conflicting societies and
organizations that use the word "Theosophical" implies that a
series of personal opinions have framed those differences --- not
the original teachings at all.

It is therefore quite unfair to characterize individuals unless
one can demonstrate inaccuracy or falsety in their writings and
sayings. Let this be shown if possible.

As to the matter of the U.L.T. being established to study the
"original teachings" of Theosophy and not to follow any "person,"
or adopt any "opinion." I would say that in my mind it gives the
individual student the widest latitude and freedom. And that is
something I personally welcome and feel it is a valuable asset
for all students who desire to discover what the Masters, through
H.P.Blavatsky actually taught.

The important fact is that in any and all cases every person
makes up their own minds.

It does no one any good to try to minimize, derogate or criticize
other methods of study and associations or societies. Each has
its own worth.

The Karma of every individual is always individual.

Those who contribute to a place where work can be done freely,
accept a great responsibility.

All try to work for the future, because one of the most probable
karmic events for all and each of us will be our reincarnation
among persons, and in a family where the study of Theosophy
(under whatever name may be given to it in the FUTURE) will be
part of our educational program. Will it be clear or veiled?
The decision depends on our present choices.

I hope this clarifies the matter somewhat

Best wishes,

Dallas

PS	Please see notes below


===================


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Kier [mailto:dennw3k@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:30 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2001 --U L T Day Letter July 25th 2001


----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Reitemeyer <ringding@blinx.de>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World 2001 --U L T Day Letter July 25th 2001


> Dallas wrote:

> The United Lodge of Theosophists began as a radical idea. It
> sought to provide a basis for students and inquirers to gather
> together to study and promulgate Theosophy, without having to
> worry about organization and structure, or elections and
> officers - the "personality" of the world.
=======================================

>
> Frank answers:

> That is exactly the problem with the ULT and why the founder
Robert
Crosbie was kicked out - the unfitness und unreadyness to
recognise the
duties and the wide spread of such poisonal, twisted thinking
over the decades
is on of the main reasons why the structure und organization of
the whole
theos. movement - whether ULT, Adyar, Pasadena - today is
nothing else that
a dead body, a parody of the original TS.

---------------------------------------------------


DTB May I correct this:

As far as I can tell from autobiographical evidence, Mr. Crosbie
was not "kicked out" of the Point Loma T S .

He and Mrs. Crosbie left.

He and Mrs. Crosbie had been invited there from Boston by Mrs.
Tingley.

They worked in Point Loma for some time. They decided to leave
on their own, and after several conversations with Mrs. Tingley.

I would welcome an opportunity to see the actual records. And
read the comments actually in writing on this.


-----------------------------------------

Frank continues - - - -

- - - this wrong thinking of a single individual and his
unfitness
to follow the clear instructions of the Masters and their
messengers be
a good thing or even an example which we should follow. We
should learn
from the past and not be proud about the mistakes of some
unlucky
individuals. If there is no one who cares for organization then
there will be chaos.


-----------------------------------------------


DTB	I would be glad if any evidence on this could be advanced.
It will serve us all if the matter can be cleared up,

As it stands all this is second hand opinion. But if it is to be
expressed in public it is only fair to advance proofs.

In regard to consistency with theosophy, Mr. Crosbie's books are
available today for all to read. [Published by THEOSOPHY COMPANY,
245 W 33rd St., Los Angeles, Ca., 9007, U.S.A. ]

Let me say that everyone can secure and read Mr. Crosbies'
writings and verify for themselves whether the thinking there is
either "poisoned or twisted."

I believe in being fair to all. And especially to those who have
died and are not able to answer their detractors directly. On
the behalf of such persona whose writings I have studied for
years, let me say that any one can verify for themselves this
matter. There are in print two books containing Mr. R. Crosbie's
writings:

THE FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER [ Containing copies of his letters to
friends, and stenographic reports on some of his talks. The last
section of letters titled IN THE BEGINNING gives his reasons for
starting the UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS. -- It is designed to
provide the ORIGINAL TEACHINGS (as texts that any one can own and
study), and to provide a forum, free to any one, so that those
original writings and teachings could be discussed.]

ANSWER TO QUESTIONS at an INFORMAL "OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY" CLASS.
[ With a copy of Mr. Judge's The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY - by W. Q.
Judge in hand, it is easy to trace the source of those questions
that Mr. Crosbie answered, and to determine if they are
consistent with H P B's and Mr. Judge's Theosophical teachings or
not.

==================================


DWK*****************
Quite possibly the total absence of the thoughts and reference to
most
of the early workers with HPB, and the elevating of the minor
character WQJ to co-godhood with HPB has something to do with it.


DTB	I cannot conceive of the remotest reason why wither
H.P.Blavatsky or Mr. Judge ought to be considered "gods" -- wise,
certainly, but not "gods." DTB



I see nothing of the writings of or even mention of those others
who
also had contact with the Masters, such as Olcott, Besant,
Leadbeater,
and the many others who worked with and along side of HPB, while
WQJ
was lawyering in New York, going off with his brother and mining
in
South America, while HPB and HSO and CWL were working hard in
India
and Britian to build a vigourous organization.


DTB	I have seen original letters of H.P.Blavatsky concerning Mr.
Judge and calling him "the resuscitator of Theosophy in
America." Also: "It is to you chiefly, if not entirely, that the
THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY owes its existence in 1888. Let me then
thank you ...my voice is but the feeble echo of other more sacred
voices, and the transmitter of the approval of Those whose
presence is alive in more than one true Theosophical heart, and
lives, as I know, preeminently in yours."

If one reads his story "A WEIRD TALE" [Path VI p. 135, 189] one
will realize he went to Venezuela, Central America and Mexico for
something far different than mining

------------------------------------------


There seems to be a conscious myth making in process, denying
those
people who did work to build the orginazation, and deifying
others who
never had much influence in it till HPB passed away, and then
excluding even the mention of those who spent long years of the
rest
of their lives working for the organization.

It seems to echo the writings of HPB in Isis and Doctrine about
those
johnny-come-lately Christians who destroyed the teachings of
Jesus,
and created a wholly mythical religion around mythical figure. It
is
happening quicker this time.


DTB	One needs to get one's facts straight and stop relying on
second hand opinions and views. To which one adds (sadly) a
fresh layer.

If any one is further interested in straightening the record I
will be glad to supply what facts I have and can find

Best wishes,

Dallas








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