Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00061)

July 7 2001

Dear Gopi:

I also value these exchanges.

My objective is to learn all I can and simultaneously check out
and verify what I have learned.

Although I may appear to be very strong in what I say, I am only
voicing as accurately as I can the statements made in the
original teachings of Theosophy. I always try to make sure that
I can supply a reference or a quotation to do this. So excuse me
if I sound very positive at times.

Let me make some observations below

Dal

===================================




-----Original Message-----
From: G--- C----
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:49 AM
To:
Subject: [bn-study] Re: About Esotericism


Dear Dallas,

This discussion is of such a great value to me.


It seems that we are getting some where! So, the vast literature
does the
following:



1. There is nothing new that is not already said in the
Scriptures.



DTB	Our present renditions of ancient Scriptures (into our
modern languages) have been altered by copiers and
translators -- it is inevitable. All ancient Scriptures need to
be checked for their inherent IDEAS. We can no longer rely
entirely on the WORDS being accurate.

When all is said and done, each of us becomes the sole authority
for ourselves. Outside authorities may be truthful or even,
unknown to themselves, they may unintentionally be unreliable.



2. All of the Scriptures from all of the places say the same
Truth.



DTB	That may be true or false. ( see above reasons) It is
however probably correct to say that if the ORIGINATOR of the
reform or new religion is an ADEPT, then He/She would belong to
the Great Lodge of Perfected Men (Buddhas and Mahatmas) whose
duty it is to guard humanity.

They have a single teaching and a single doctrine. We now call
it THEOSOPHY and it is safe to study it as it compels no one to
"believe on blind faith" anything. It offers propositions, and
clear logic for all its doctrines. It leaves the study,
conclusions and decisions to those who use it. We are all in
this position in regard to the literature and doctrines of
Theosophy. Unless we study them most carefully, we will not know
if they "ring true."



3. The Scriptures including the T Literature work eventually from
within the student.



DTB	Correct. The INDIVIDUAL MIND is a part of the Universal
Spiritual SOUL (or ATMA-BUDDHI) We use it at will to think of
truths and prove them.

The criteria of TRUTH is that it is universal, impersonal, and
compassionate.




4. The centrifugal force pushes the Extraneous matter out
bringing the truth to the Core.



DTB	The TRUTH of SPIRITUAL WISDOM is already at the CORE CENTER
of every being, whether the form of that being is an atom, a
mineral, a plant, an animal, a human or a Buddha, a Dhyan Chohan
or a Rishi.

The ONE SPIRIT is universal.

The "coating" of matter makes for ignorance and lack of clear
perception.

It is moved by KAMA or desire and passions. The devotee has to
learn how to calm the KAMIC nature and listen intently for The
VOICE OF THE SILENCE , OF THE HIGHER SELF, that is WITHIN
himself. Study The VOICE OF THE SILENCE (HPB) it speaks of this
and teaches it.



5. The Truth is the whole Nature which includes Me.



DTB	Well said, I think. Every human of whatever race or
religion is an essential part of Nature. We can but humbly bow
to Natures' universality. And we ought to study her workings
carefully.



6. From the Human to the next step of our realization is our
evolution.



DTB	IT IS A SELF-REALIZATION. But we have to carefully
distinguish between our two SELVES: 1. the HIGHER SELF (Atma),
and 2. the Lower Self (Kama).

Our efforts, I believe ought to be directed primarily at grasping
the nature of the Spiritual Self, (the Higher Self). And, then,
when we have grasped the implications of the Higher Self: that
it is within every being, we can very cautiously investigate the
nature of the Lower Self (desires and passions, and evils), but
the study of the HIGHER SELF demands first the purification of
the Lower Self. All KAMA (desire of a selfish nature) has to be
gradually and firmly (but gently) reduced to impersonality. The
best thing to do is to say: "If I were another person, would I
recommend this action?"



7. This is helped by the Masters (Brothers or Servants).



DTB	Theosophy teaches that our own INTERNAL MASTER (which is
The Higher Self) is WITHIN.

When the disciple has made himself ready, then only on appeal,
can an exterior Master help. It is always up to the HIGHER ASPECT
of the LOWER SELF, by its own inner efforts, that the Lower Self
learns how to transcend its own self-made limitations. If the
Lower Man is honest, determined and active in self-purification
then Nature also helps.

How do we recognize this help? One of the most immediate facts
is: The fact that we have all contacted THEOSOPHY in this
incarnation. This shows us we are ready to learn and adopt
higher and more accurate measures, and apply them first to our
own Lower Selves. It is to be carefully realized that WE HAVE TO
DO THE WORK OURSELVES. No one else can do it for us. That is
our Karma.

Some people are discouraged on hearing this. They expect that by
offering themselves the "Master" will come running to assist.
That is not the way of Nature. Consider you may aspire to be a
Doctor, but 7 or 10 years of intensive and unremitting study lies
before you to achieve that degree and to be trusted to practice.

Do you think in Esotericism and Occultism it takes less time? Do
you, or does any one think they can BUY truth?

You speak of the "New Age Gurus." If they actually KNEW, then
they would not offer for sale any kind of course. First, they
would practice the ethics and the metaphysics they teach, and
thereafter, they would offer freely such knowledge as is
applicable to others with care and discrimination. Try and read
the B. GITA carefully and notice how Krishna speaks to Arjuna.
Krishna answers Arjuna's questions. He demands no payment
either.

For over 5,000 years this wonderful, miraculous discourse, direct
from the mouth of the Preserver -- the HIGHER SELF OF ALL
CREATURES -- not a "Personal God" but a living wise man, has
been available for students. How many have actually understood
and used it unselfishly for the benefit of others around them?
How many Christians have read THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT and have
filed to make personal application of it ? Do all Buddhists
humbly follow the injunctions of the DHAMMAPADA ? And in the
case of students of Theosophy, how many have made THE VOICE OF
THE SILENCE ( by HPB) their daily guide and companion?

We can take advantage of the WISDOM RELIGION (SANATANA DHARMA) if
we desire to make our LOWER, PASSIONATE selves pure, and allow
the light and wisdom of the "Ray" of the Universal HIGHER SELF
that is inside us, to show itself and to begin to work through
us. That is the message of the Gita.




So, all of the paths have to lead us to the Brotherhood.



DTB	We lead our Lower minds to that conclusion. But we need to
learn the logic of metaphysics -- the language of all SOULS.



Here we get to the fundamental difficulty. Here Lucifer works two
ways:


* Automatically question the existence of Masters and call HPB a
trickster (one of the more polite names).


* Create many phony Masters and take you off into the wild blue
yonder of mental nonsense never to get back onto the path.

During the early years of TS there were Spiritualists who wanted
to join
HPB's Band wagon. They were the ones that were mediums and worked
with
the Spirits. She promptly disowned them. They never forgave her
for that
and got her in to lot of hot waters.




DTB	Find out why that happened. The historical record is clear.
Read THE Theosophical MOVEMENT 1875-1950 [ Theosophy company,
A ] It gives documentary proofs. Read H.P.Blavatsky the
biography by Sylvia Cranston if you desire to find out with
documentary evidence who and what H.P.Blavatsky was and is.

Are you familiar with H.P.Blavatsky's articles? Have you read
through the first 10 volumes of THE THEOSOPHIST ? and the first
10 volumes of LUCIFER ? There is food for years of solid work in
those pages. Why not start with ISIS UNVEILED and with the help
of the THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY work our way through it. Then stud
the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) and proceed with this sound knowledge
in hand to go into The SECRET DOCTRINE . One has to have
patience and develop perseverance. Then we find that all our
work is not for ourselves, but is a treasure we have amassed to
be shared with others.

PSYCHISM IS NOT SPIRITUALITY. Psychism has to do with the desire
(Kamic) nature. Spirituality has to do with TRUTH and is
Universal, impersonal, and charitable. Psychism is selfish and
isolates the person and encourages him to indulge in pleasure.
Spirituality is that boundless urge to live a useful and wise
life and to be of benefit to the world.




Now they come in the form of Channelers and myriad different New
Age Gurus.




DTB	How can those be trusted -- they are Psychics, and psychism
is the plane or realm of desire and passion; this is exactly
what HPB warned about in dealing with spiritualists and their
Mediums. Psychism is not SPIRITUALITY. We have to also be very
careful not to allow ourselves to be carried away by our own
desires and passions. Or we will "dig a deeper hole" out of
which we will eventually have to climb with greater effort.



However, the past 1 1/4 Centuries saw great persons with deep
insights
in to T/S and brought information to more understandable form and
they
came from different walks of life and brought it to us in
different
modes. Following is a very small list:



Judge and Crosbie
Anne Besant and Leadbeater
Jinarajadasa
Sri Ram
B. P. Wadia
Taimini
J. Krishnamurthy
U. G. Krishnamurthi
Alice Bailey
Gurdief and Dr Gibson (A Psychiatrist from Kentucky - 'Science of
Man')
Gnostics

They all have reached Masters and gave us information in their
own way.


DTB	I would make no such claim. One need only read what they
wrote to see the basis of their lives and actions. This has to
be done first hand, and cannot be done by using the claims others
have made concerning them. In order to value any one, one has to
become WISE in one's self. Otherwise it is guess-work.
"Head-learning" is NOT "SOUL-WISDOM."

In the cases you mention their basis differ from one to another,
and one has to be able to distinguish one from the other. If
they adhere to the TRUTH (which is one, their method of
expression, will be found to contain as a background TRUTH. But
it is always we who have to acquire, and then use DISCRIMINATION.
True discrimination is derived directly from WISDOM. Thus we
develop in our Lower Manas, a sense for TRUTH. and thus we are
able to purify it by using it continually.




The next question for us is Discernment. How do we know who is
genuine? How do we stay grounded and not follow a wrong path?


DTB	See above.



If we do not find a path to Masters we might as well be reading
more exciting and stimulating papers such as Enquirer.



DTB	I do not know how much you already know of Theosophy.

If you are starting out, then, I would first suggest equipping
yourself with a good knowledge of what THEOSOPHY is and teaches.

Why not start with the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) or The OCEAN OF
THEOSOPHY -Judge ?

Both are reliable, and both will furnish you with the BASICS you
will need so that you can read and evaluate what the various
persons you mention taught and offered. It is always better to
do this at first hand, and thus generate your own opinions.
There is no reason why you should not check out your conclusions
from time to time with others.

But first: acquire the 3 FUNDAMENTALS that H P B teaches in The
SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I pp 14 to 19. Then realize that there are
three streams o evolution that are inextricably intertwined (see
S D I p. 181-2). Finally realize that there are in nature and in
Man 7 planes (or "Principles") that provide for each "ETERNAL
PILGRIM' the full range of the potentials locked up by NATURE in
every component of herself (see The SECRET DOCTRINE I 157-8, 200,
242-6, S D II p. 596) If you have the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB)
you will find you have already studied them.

As t the 3 FUNDAMENTALS:


1. SPIRIT IS EVERYWHERE and "Space" is full of it. Each
creature from small to great, and from high to low, anywhere on
Earth or in the Universe, has a "ray" of the ONE SPIRIT in it.


2. LIFE-ATOMS are the building blocks of the whole Kosmos. They
contain: SPIRIT, Matter, Intelligence (Mind), and are subject
to KARMA -- the universal, impartial and just Law of living and
of improvement. These Life-atoms (sometimes called "Monads") are
immortals. They cannot be destroyed or killed. They form the
basis for all evolutionary progress. Reincarnation is the result
of their stages of advancement.


3. Evolution is the eternal progress of all beings. Under this
reincarnation or rebirth operates. One has to become convinced
that every being, without any exceptions, has before it the same
opportunities. As a MONAD ( Atma-Buddhi-Manas) it can become
the wisest being in the Universe and join the company of all
those who have already achieved that wisdom.

4. There is no "Personal God" anywhere in the Universe. The
UNIVERSE ITSELF IS ONE, and godlike powers are locked up in each
one of the many creatures that it maintains and sustains.

Wisdom ( the Sanatana Dharma) is the common property of all
evolving beings. Some work harder than others and forge ahead.
But there is no reason why we should not go ahead and work our
own way up with our own efforts. There are NO shortcuts. Look
at your own life so far. Only the man who does nothing fails to
advance.

Let me offer an example: You (and everyone else) chose (if
possible) to make the effort to go to school. And there, you
learned what you chose to learn. The curriculum gave a general
education, and as one became more learned, we chose to study some
one field, and exclude others. So as a result we are wise in
some things and ignorant in others.

Now we find we have progressed in a particular direction, but the
horizon of knowledge being circular, we have to become
GENERALISTS if we would succeed in learning how Nature works.
Nature is sensitive to all things and beings and when it senses
we are on the right track ,it extends a helping hand. You ought
to consider your contact with THEOSOPHY as such a "helping hand."

Best wishes, Please consider these as partial answers and come
back with more if you wish.

Dallas

=================================

Thank you

Gopi








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