Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00053)

Friday, July 06, 2001

Dear Reed:

I also saw those illustrated in the paper. The 2,000 BC may be
or may not be right. I would like to see a scientific report on
this -- to compare with earlier cave finds.


SCIENCE and SAVAGERY

In any case civilization and savagery have gone hand in hand
forever in the past. And while Europe was emerging from the
hunter/gatherer (?) stage (either after the last mini-ice-age or
the effects of the sinking of Posedonis) we do no know for sure
on a century by century basis what happened to existing
civilizations in Europe, and how they were lost, preserved, or
rebuilt.

We have very sketchy evidence.

Has any one yet written a reliable history of the development of
evidence, chronologically, whereon the scientific hypotheses have
been established in the past 300 or 400 years?


SCIENCE has DEVELOPED in the past 400 Years

Based on what they were discovering, 2 to 300 years ago,
scientists in the reconstructive sciences (archaeology, geology,
ancient geography, paleontology, paleography, Orientalism, etc.,
etc.) having a regard for their personal development as
"authorities," eagerly erected theories, which in the passage of
time, have become adopted as FACTS. H.P.Blavatsky gives evidence
of this activity in the 2nd Vol. of The SECRET DOCTRINE . After
that are we, students of theosophy to shove Theosophical
doctrines aside because they are unpopular? How much popularity
do we crave for ourselves?


FRAIL EVIDENCE FOR THEORIES --
SUPPRESSION OF NEW EVIDENCE

On examination they (scientific theories) are found to be based
on very frail and almost tenuous evidence. Theories have nested
and hatched out further hypotheses: theories have been erected
on theories, but annoying facts arise and are quickly hidden.

The book recently published FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY and a
subsequent volume of the IMPACT OF FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY, show an
unbiased reader exactly what the problem is. It is NOT Science
and its FINDINGS that are at fault.

It is Scientists (humans) who have their personal reputations at
stake -- and they realize that if they permit accusations of
concealment, their personal standings will fail and fall. They
are not acting honestly, but are showing up the frail theories
they have adopted. Yet in most cases they dare not conceal or
destroy documented relicts found and secreted away on dusty
back-helves and drawers. Fortunately for us we find a few who
speak up and challenge publicly this situation. It would be a
great thing if someone could review such evidence over the past
300 years and ask questions about the anomalies it presents.
This in effect is what H.P.Blavatsky has done -- at least it is a
beginning.


ANTIQUITY was WITNESSED by the LODGE of ADEPTS

I have never understood why so many readers try so hard to get
H.P.Blavatsky's statements to conform to Scientific theories. No
doubt they think that theosophy ought to make concessions.

Why have H.P.Blavatsky and the Masters devoted so much time to
placing in evidence the Occult History of the Past. Why have
they advanced explanations showing how the legends, lore and
mythological traditions of the past of all nations stand for
communal reminiscences of great events in there past. What is
the evidence of great cyclopean building and the fact that
repeatedly temples and monument have been rebuilt on the
foundations left by those GIANTS of our past?

I recall a book seen many years ago in which illustrations of
over 150 monuments scattered over Europe illustrated such
cyclopean buildings. All the major temples around the
Mediterranean, and the great Cathedrals of Europe were using
antique remains and I suppose, keeping the "lay-lines" alive.
We do not yet understand to much of the "LAY-LINES." Some
suppose that they run in STRAIGHT LINES, but others suspect that
they are also placed on special ARCS. And they may connect with
other sites in distant countries.)


CHURCH CHRONOLOGY PROVED FAULTY

The actual conditions in early epochs remain to be consolidated
and in the meantime enough evidence was brought forward to
demonstrate that the Chuch's chronology was geologically
foreshortened. That is what has given a death-blow to
Chuchianity ( which is not true Christianity -- as practically no
one FOLLOWS Christ's injunctions as given, for instance in the
SERMON ON THE MOUNT. What about other contemporaneous
civilizations and conditions in the rest of the world?


THE HISTORY OF SCIENCE: DISCOVERIES -- THEORIES

There was a presumption made just before H.P.Blavatsky wrote that
conditions found to have existed in Europe were world-wide.
Another presumption was that the Church's Biblical chronology was
burgled, borrowed and then truncated. It produced from the
records taken from the Jews the Babylonians, the Chaldees and the
Old Testament information that was true, but concealed in
kabalistic words and phrases' and then put out that the time
element was compressed by God's omnipotent edict.

It is so difficult to get these ideas, which were and are today,
impacted in the plastic minds of school children, out there where
they can be analyzed accurately for any truth content. You and I
have both been through the educational "system." I have lost
respect for scientific THEORIES, but I do respect there facts
they exhibit, and the general ideas they express.



NATURE PROVIDES

Our PRESENT civilization is built on their discoveries of SOME OF
NATURE'S SECRETS. They (scientists) do not know EVERYTHING.
Nature has many more secrets to unveil to the honest seeker. One
thing is quite plain (but constantly denied):

1. that NATURE contains everything. And

2, that Nature has already laid out all the necessary
ground-work, and

3. has set in place safety lines to take care of the least of
the many beings that compose her. None are left out.

4. As a goal all will ultimately achieve, Nature has set the
capacity of total Knowledge and Wisdom as a potential within the
will-reach of every being.

5. The concept that the FORM is all-important has been shown to
be faulty, as the directing consciousness within it is the
imperishable and true centre of individual existence.


If Science deals with FACTS, then lay all of them on the table in
plain view and label carefully those that do not fit
pre-conceived theories with big QUESTION MARKS .

What does a COMBINED CHRONOLOGY reveal -- I mean one in which
European (and its child American science) science alone does not
dominate? -- This is what H.P.Blavatsky tried to demonstrate in
ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE

You see, Theoretical Science bases itself on presumptions. It
evolves theories on scanty evidence and then later as new (and
contradictory ) evidence is found. It is the Scientists (whose
reputations are concerned) who try to force that to fit the
earlier theory. Most people who do not study science in depth
take the theory to be TRUE -- After all, who has the time to
verify SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY?

As presently constructed the theory of evolution draws as fact
the incomplete evidence that a human form is the only end result
of developing intelligence.

To fit the concept of evolution as a progressive affair, it seeks
to trace the development of the human form from animal to ape,
and thence to Man as he is today. There is a false presumption
that the form is evidence of INTELLIGENCE. But the gaps and
missing links, and any proof that Intelligence is solely
dependant on the brain in the form, is lacking. So theories have
been erected and facts bent to fit the hypotheses.


Another theory is that civilization arose gradually from a
world-wide "savagery"-- is it really so --
The problem is to account for the fact that civilization and
savagery have co-existed since antiquity and co-exist today.
H.P.Blavatsky witnessed the effect of European contact on
isolated savage tribes: Hottentots, Polynesians, Australian
Aborigines, American "Indians," Ve-das of Ceylon, the
Tasmanians, etc... and various other tribes and communities,
which had been isolated for millennia in some cases, and which
European diseases decimated after contact.

Then we have archaeological and paleontological evidence: the
rest of the world, Egypt for instance, China, India, Peru and
Mexico / Honduras / Guatemala seemed to have had a series of fine
civilization going (at the time or) before the savages of Europe
started on their upward trend. Europe and America are perhaps
standards of rapid development in this, the Kali Yuga, but in
past cycles other lands had far greater ways of life going in the
past.

Europe and America profited from knowledge that came from the
East, but it has developed its own applications of that. For
instance warlike instruments, which each century has seen the
development of more terrible ones. We conquer, and perhaps the
worse of our conquest is the one currently in progress:
economics. We are become merchants of famine and disease. We
dispense health and wealth and pretend to do good to
"under-developed free nations."

But the current bonds are not only economic, they are ethical and
moral. We have not yet risen to altruism. We have not yet
exported the reasons for "doing good."

Theosophy speaks of

1. the IMMORTALITY OF MAN's SPIRIT, It then speaks of

2. IMMUTABLE KARMA -- individual, racial, national. It places a

3. COMMON GOAL of SUPREME PERFECTION forward.

But it has yet to make the reasons for this plain to all who
might read or hear of it. Brotherhood as a FACT. An impartial
and universal Law of Justice, which, in application are human
Forgiveness, Mercy and Compassion. ("You gets what you pays for.
Good for good, and Evil for evil") and a GLORIOUS GOAL of
Universal WISDOM, where TRUTH alone abides.


LEMURIAN CIVILIZATIONS

Easter Island is a case in point -- The SECRET DOCTRINE calls it
a "remnant of Lemuria" and states that it had sank with the rest
but was later raised -- about 30 miles away, west from the
island was one of the largest Lemurian cities, now under the
Pacific. [ S D II 316-7, 327-8, S D I 321-2, 439,]

But all this is for further thinking, writing and development.

While I am on the hunt for more information on ancient monuments
and forgotten or hidden antiquities let me offer some Web-sites
that might prove useful to those interested in antiquity


===============================


OUT OF PLACE ARTIFACTS-
www.eprf.tzo.com/html/artifacts.html
and ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY


CATASTROPHES and LOST PRE- kurellian.tripod.com/lostcvl.html
HISTORIC CIVILIZATIONS
60 million (?) years


ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS www.crystalinks.com/ancient.html
ILLUSTRATIONS


www.eliki.com/ancient/civilizations


MARTIAN PYRAMIDS www.mufor.org/ares
EVIDENCE OF OCEANS
On Mars


HARRAPA & MOHENJODARO www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/80/76
INDIAN ANTIQUITY IN
So. Indus Deserts


UPPER TIBET -- ROCK ART www.asianart.com/articles/rockart


EASTER ISLAND www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/easter/civilization


DONNELLEY "Atlantis" www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ataw
EVIDENCE



PLATO ON ATLANTIS
www.auburn.edu/~downejm/splepsaas-Plato.html



phd.evansville.edu/plato.html


CAYCEE ON ATLANTIS


www.edgarcayce.org/about_ec/cayce_on/targetindex.html



ATLANTIS and CRETE
www.angelfire.com/hi/alhawk/atlanthira.html



ATLANTIS & CARIBBEAN www.atlantisinsights.net/Carib.html



ATLANTIS & So. CHINA SEA www.atlan.org


=========================

Best wishes,

Dallas

==============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Reed Carson [mailto:carson@blavatsky.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:59 AM
To: study@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-study] older cave engravings in France

Today a news item appeared on Yahoo at
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010704/wl/france_cave_engraving
s_1.html

Any thoughts?

Reed
______
Cave Engravings Found in France
PERIGUEUX, France (AP) - Vivid prehistoric engravings that could
date back
as far as 28,000 B.C. have been found in a cave in western
France, regional
officials said Wednesday.

An archaeologist characterized the engravings as a major
discovery. They
are believed to predate the world's oldest cave paintings - the
18,000-year-old paintings in the famed Lascaux caves, also in
western France.
``It is as important for engraving as Lascaux is for painting,''
Dany
Baraud, chief archaeologist at the Regional Direction of Cultural
Affairs
of Aquitaine, said of the cave discovered in the hamlet of
Cussac.

Officials said hundreds of yards of detailed engravings in the
Cussac cave
depict animals - including bison, horses and rhinoceroses - and
human figures.

The site was discovered by an amateur cave explorer in September
but not
announced by experts until Wednesday.

France's Culture Ministry has classified the site as a historic
monument,
but has not yet confirmed the estimated date of the engravings.



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