Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00026)

Hello fellow seekers

I have neglected this forum for some time due to insistence of work,
but must make time for this topic.

The thread on capital punishment, judicial murder, just deserts, eye
for an eye - call it what you want - is very interesting to me.
Apparently capital punishment, in specific instances, is acceptable
even to the Great Souls. For example it is often stated that the
result for revealing proscribed knowledge by those initiated is
"instant death" or equivalent.

Indeed in the Mahatma letters it can be read that an explanation for
HPB's behavior is given that one of that being's subtle bodies was
retained in what we might call protective custody to ensure compliance
with the oath of secrecy.

I recall reading an article by HPB wherein she wrote, among other
things, that capital punishment inflicted upon the living the
earth-bound subtle bodies of persons which, though extinction of them
as entities was assured over a long time, could and most likely would
result in their negatively influencing many other, even innocent,
beings.

More importantly, the act of intervening to foreshorten another
earthly life interferes with that soul's karma and binds one to that
karma.

These are entirely practical matters, from a Theosophical view, and
don't even touch on the broader ethical considerations, but upon which
Theosophy is also quite clear.

Theosophy everywhere emphasises the principles of non-violence or, more
explicitly, no-harm.

To follow the path with diligence, one should STRIVE to not harm any
other creature - even if one's own life, or those of one's loved ones
are endangered.

This is surely an onerous requirement, for who could stand by while
friend or family, wife or child is being subjected to the depravations
of murderers, corrupters, rapists etc?

It appears Theosophy exoterically upholds this principle, yet at the
same time it imposes death for initiates who expose prohibited
secrets.

This is dangerous ground. But us exoteric seekers know too little
to pass judgment. The unravelling of this conundrum might be possible
only by someone who has been initiated. Perhaps it is as simple as
this: what we consent to beforehand is a being-obligation we must
uphold above humankind's law, even if it means earthly death.

The difference is that no criminal, murder, rapist consents to earthly
annihilation in the event they are caught in their crime. In that
case we who would extinguish their Maya-driven lives are wrong.

But if one who would become a Great Soul agrees that, should they
transgress the absolute rules of initiateship - when they have
knowledge that might be dangerous in ignorant hands, that death is the
agreed result, then all natural laws are still strictly observed.

There is a clear line between conscious, self-aware, agreement to the
rules - whether of an esoteric school or society - and breach of those
rules by a being who has no capacity to consciously agree and uphold
any pledge, no matter how much lip-service they may pay.

By the same token, even if someone had agreed that earthly death
should be the result of breaching rules of faith and secrecy, their
teachers would not impart anything to them unless they thought them
"conscious" to the extent that they understood what that pledge
entailed.

Of course this is very difficult to swallow. Anyone who has been
mugged or whose loved one has been attacked in any way knows the
redblooded anger it evokes. The "righteous" urge to take part in "just
retribution" etc. But this is all Maya, attachment, love of matter.

The road up is full of prickly issues, raging controversies, crises of
conscience. And I myself have not been put to the ultimate test and do
no know how I shall behave at that point.

However I do know that the way I interpret what I read in my quest for
something above a life I know to be false, despite all its fancies, is
summed up by an hypothetical exercise put to me during a philosophy
ethics course some 20 years ago: if you had the choice of strangling a
babe in her cradle and saving humankind, or holding to your ethics,
sparing the babe and condemning humankind to extinction, which
would you do?

The answer is simple: If mankind is so awful that its combined karma
demands that result - and you are of humankind - then you have no
choice but to repay that collective karma. In no way can you harm that
babe even if you condemn the rest of humankind. (If special cases
override this view I do not know them)

But it all raises a new debate, already underway among the capital
punishment/life imprisonment crowd. Is it more "humane" or inhumane to
execute an offender or to subject them to the misery and torture of
long-term incarceration?

Theosophy, the little Ive been exposed to, appears not to hold out any
answers to this one - it must be one of the difficult lessons humanity
must learn itself. Surely mercy must somewhere here come into play.

And indeed it does. Mercy is a transcendent quality. But what is
mercy?

I would say it is an aspect of forgiveness. Forgiveness is a
prerequisite of mercy. The one cannot exist without the other. That
may be why mercy is hard to find in actual life - thank "God" many of
us are still merciful in the case of the small breaches of rule
committed by children.

But one should extend the same mercy to all humans, even and
especially to oneself.

But present Western society finds it easier or more socially
acceptable, or should we say politically correct, to hold retribution
above mercy. Possibly, if we understood our circumstances, we could
distinguish between ordinary folk driven to crime and those truly
"evil" whose karmic destiny is to be incacerated in conditions close
to the typical view of hell.

It has been explained as " the punishment should fit the crime".
However as serious crime increases, the view is that all criminals
should be stamped out, even though some may have stolen only an apple
from a stall to feed their children. Clearly perspective has been lost
for we all, all of society, must be as guilty of stealing that apple
as the hapless parent was found to be. For it is an "evil" thing that
we should allow any fellow to reach the state where he/she must steal
to feed their loved ones. It is all our crime and I would think it
will be marked against us, whether we have political influence or not.

Whatever your view, you must always be attracted back to the knowledge
that all on Earth is Maya. To become attached, to be passionate about
it in any way, is to be lost in it. We must acknowledge and and do
what is within our limits to change or relieve the awful life most of
humanity lives, but we must not wallow in it, or hold on to it, or
claim it as our saving grace. For then we fall back into the seething
cauldron of Maya and are no use to anyone.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. As you do, so shall it be done unto you.
As you think of others, so shall it be thought of you. As you are so
shall it be...

Therefore should we all strive to rise above and help anyone to rise
above the vicissitudes of life.



> No, it isn't becoming prevalent in today's society. It
> is becoming prevalent in today's journalism, which is
> a very different thing. And if you ever needed an
> argument in favor of the death penalty, the fact that
> a majority of American journalists oppose it, is a
> very strong argument in favor of the death penalty.

> I assume you meant "humane" execution. And yes, there
> are humane executions. Most executions by lethal
> injection are far more humane than the misery and pain
> that come with accidental death, death by cancer or
> death at the hands of a psychopath.

> As to the violence to the inner person, prove it. I
> would rather pass my last moment with a painless
> injection than dying in the mangled hulk of a burning
> auto, dying wracked in pain from cancer as my body
> eats itself or dying after being raped repeatedly and
> stabbed repeatedly.

> Those who viciously murder other human beings are
> getting far better than they deserve when they die by
> lethal injection.

> Chris


> --- toy77@aol.com wrote:
>> This is Myrra again. We did spend a meeting
>> discussing capital punishment 
>> and all its ramifications . The feeling against it
>> which is becoming 
>> prevalent in today's society is a sign that the
>> teachings have worked their 
>> way into people's hearts - if not their conscious
>> brains. Karma can take a 
>> long, long time to work itself out. The fact that
>> so many see the injustice 
>> of it, without understanding what goes on on other
>> planes is a great step 
>> forward. There is no such thing as a peaceful and
>> human execution. The 
>> violence to the inner person is not perceptible to
>> those who watch - only to 
>> those who know.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>> 
>> 


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-- 
Best regards,
Alan
mailto:alwilli@iafrica.com