Theos-Talk Archives (June 2001 Message tt00064)

Saturday, June 16, 2001

Dear Eldon:

Sorry to have caused any misunderstanding. I try to be as clear
as I can (and know) and that is not always accurate, fair or
complete, so give me some leeway and a little compassion ?


In the matter of "direct experience" I have noticed that there
are many views.


But why not start at the beginning.

Who (or What in us and others) is able to have "direct experience
(visions of truth, divinity , etc...) ?

What reports have we had from those who have had "direct
experience ?" Are there any common factors?

Is it soul to soul or my personal soul and the Soul Of The
Universe ?

Is it buddhi-manas to atman ? Is it lower manas (kama-manas) to
higher manas (buddhi-manas). Is it even higher --
atma-buddhi-manas as an eternal monad, to the Universal Monad ?

Difficult to say, as in each case there ought to be recognizable
stages. At least partially (lower-mind ) mentally definable to
some extent, since they ultimately reside inside us all, and we
think of them when we are awake and using the brain-mind

H.P.Blavatsky states in The SECRET DOCTRINE that all monads
mirror each other, and are part and parcel of the Universal
Monad - or the ONE SELF. (S.D. I 619, 932-4)

In the reprint by the TPH, Adyar of FROM THE CAVES AND JUNGLES OF
HINDOOSTAN, (1975, p. 336-7) I came across an analogy which might
illustrate this (if we do not stretch it too far). On a shallow
plate pour out a globule of liquid mercury, shake it into
several globules, which when the dish at rest re-coalesce. If we
scatter dust, ashes, mixed with a little oil over the globule and
shake it again we will find that the globules so made coat
themselves with the impurities and lose the power to cohere
(until those impurities are removed by sublimation.

We, when in evolution, are like the globules of mercury coated
and separated by the impurities of the material personality and
its accumulated past Karma. Purification and elimination of
dust, ashes and oil restores the power to coalesce and the power
to shine and reflect.

The analogy in C & J is applied to Individuality continued in
Nirvana. The Individuality is not "lost" because it merges with
the ALL, but is totally diffused in THAT. It is only under Karma
that such Nirvanees may return in future Manvantaras as Karma
dictates ( S.D. II 79-80 )

Looking through your comment I note most of them are couched in
terms of emotional response to observations or events.

Does that not indicate the action and view of Kama-manas ?

Pure Manas or Buddhi-Manas might in making the same observations
report in terms of impersonal experience.

In not way would it "defend" the quality of "direct experience,"
nor do I think it would reduce it to trite incidents - football,
etc...

If you agree that in each human there is THAT which is at all
times ONE WITH THE ALL, then any sense of separateness arises
because of the isolation, or the differences one perceives when
awake and acting through a Personality (as H.P.Blavatsky would
define it in the KEY pp.: 85, 94, 103 108 121, 142, 176, 184-5,
197 209 )

The Personality, like the ashes and oil mixture, serve to coat
the Individuality and give it the appearance of that
separativeness we encounter daily in ourselves and in others.
Yet, under the coat of impurities lies the pure Mercury, always
capable of rejoining all other. The limits we have to OUR
PERSONALITIES are like the impurities that coat our particular
globule. I would say that a knowledge of Theosophy and an
attempt (through daily activities) to remove them by the active
practice of brotherhood and altruism will eventually do this. In
the article THE ELIXIR OF LIFE (p.1, FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY)
this transformation of the actual material of the body and the
astral body is broadly hinted at. Science does corroborate that
there is a constant exchange of atoms and molecules to the extent
of about 98% in a year, and Theosophy adds that this process of
complete physical and astral renewal is completed 100% every 7
years we live.

Se "WE" are quite different from our bodies and our Personalities
(Kama-manas) We all sense this, our Intuitions tell us it is so.
The only place in our literature where I have found this well
discussed is in TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE (T. Co. Edn.
pp 64 - 78; BCW Vol. 10, pp. 252 -264) In The SECRET DOCTRINE
we are told there are 2 egos in man: (S.D. II 167, 254-5, 110
top, 79-80, 275; I 130, 573 )

Marc Kusek chides me of being frightened into inaction. The
contrary is a better description of my view: and that is first
to learn all one can about the conditions we may enter into, like
securing maps from earlier pioneers and investigators, and making
sure of their identical correlations; then making sure that I
have mastery at all times over MY OWN FACULTIES, POWERS and
especially when entering or approaching "altered states," where
"direct experience" is still to be had. I think it is most
important to have a preliminary knowledge and then a mastery over
one's own power to direct the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS we all have,
firmly and with benevolence in mind and determination. The ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS is controlled by a still higher aspect of
OURSELVES - who is the WITNESS, the OBSERVER, and the DIRECTOR of
the progress we are all intent on making "back to the sacred
seat." The "Real We" is the HIGHER-SELF - the ATMA. And that
like the mercury globules, is resolved into ONE, and yet
individual identity is always retained by the MONAD which we are
fundamentally.

Another example: Science has showed us that our constitution
(physically) is not "SOLID." at all. Molecules, atoms are
resolvable into fields of force. The motion of their vortical
cycles create the impression of solidity. But there is that on
which the physical atoms/molecules are fixed - the astral. The
Astral body is then centred in and around the VITAL CENTERS which
are still more subtle, and these at the 4th stage are presided
over by the principle of Kama, or desire, passion, wants, needs.
And these are centred on the temporary existence of the
PERSONALITY in this world. This is what has been created by
ourselves in the past (Karmic threads and debts), and, one
observes that this can be applied in the analogy the coating of
ashes and oil which serves to tarnish the pure globule of mercury
and give it a temporary identity. This persists till the time of
death, when the sublimation of those impurities and their
separation from the pure center occurs. Then out of Kama-loka
and into Devachan the eternal Pilgrim goes, and on return in the
next life it picks up the Karmic coating and forms a new
Personality.

I have mentioned this before as valuable. Almost 150 years ago
Bulwer Lytton wrote 2 books that deal with this area of
experience and observation. I read them years ago and the left
an indelible impression on me: the 1st. was ZANONI, and the
2nd., A STRANGE STORY. I do not know if you have read them.
The prose is long on descriptions, but the information about the
psychic and astral world sounds very real when we compare it with
the information that H.P.Blavatsky and Judge give us in their
writings.

Now let us look at the information on "dreams" usually forgotten,
but sometimes fragmentarily remembered.

1. The same CONSCIOUSNESS apparently experiences these on one
plane and brings them back to this waking plane. The physical
brain at the point of awakening may or may not be sensitive to
the impressions made. (in TRANSACTIONS, on p. 79 H.P.Blavatsky
gives a table of 7 minds of dreams.

2. H.P.Blavatsky indicates that the sleeping interval sees the
brain becoming quiescent and non-registering. The ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS next finds itself on the astral plane and then may
move to the psychic plane. Emotion rules this area and it may be
either smooth or chaotic and confused depending on the conditions
and thoughts of the brain at the time of slipping into sleep.
(there are very few who are capable of doing the "going to sleep"
deliberately and consciously.) Adepts like H.P.Blavatsky could
do that and they remained active while the body and brain slept
and recuperated it vital energies.

3. In S.D. I 181-2 you will notice that there are 3 broad
divisions of conscious evolution described.

4. On p. S.D. I 157 you will see how the 7 Theosophical
"principles" correspond with the Hindu Vedantic and the Buddhist
Taraka Raj-Yoga Schools.

5. This is useful when we compare the man's personal make-up
with that of the 7-fold Universe as is done in S.D. II 596.

6. In TRANSACTIONS (pp. 66-76) H.P.Blavatsky discusses the
nature of the conference which the Personal Ego has with its
divine internal TUTOR, the HIGHER SELF. (She identifies this
with the "deep-sleep" stage.) From that, a few stray memories may
filter through on the return journey through the psycho-astral
layer (plane) as the human's ONE CONSCIOUSNESS returns to the
physical brain-mind. The psycho-astral layer may distort these
memories unless it is quiescent.

7. DEEP SLEEP: If one is able to bring back a memory of the
encounter in the DEEP SLEEP condition to waking consciousness,
the memory will be deeply impacted and a memory of such a "dream"
will last a very long time - it may even change one's life. We
become aware suddenly of the potential of "direct experience,"
and we do not yet realize that it is a nightly experience when we
fall into "deep sleep" or "SUSHUPTI." ( see Judges' THREE PLANES
OF HUMAN LIFE - Path, Aug., 1888 W.Q.J. Articles, Vol. I p.
294).

8. MEDITATION: I think you are right in thinking that the
Higher Ego - the divine TUTOR in man is aware of all he does in
any task or entertainment. It is also true that "direct
experience" may be induced consciously and at WILL at any time
when the embodied self (Kama-Manas) sees the need for it, but I
would say that the condition that all schools of occultism seem
to recommend is one when the body and the emotions are at their
quietest. Meditation, if that embodies an active search in the
quiet of one's home, it would seem that the quest is enabled by
quiet and retirement from surrounding distractions. That would,
I think help in making that connection, and retaining any benefit
there from. I would also assume that the response would be in
terms of impersonality, universality and charitable brotherly
directives or suggestions. These tend to impersonalize the
impetuosity of the personality and its wants and curiosities, and
more important: any rashness one might feel impelled to attempt
unaided and on one's own, so to say.

Well that is enough and I hope that I have made clear what I have
learned from Theosophy on this subject. One is ever learning
more.

Best wishes, trust you are quite well,

Dal

========================


Message-----

From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 4:33 pm
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re: Re: Direct Experience

Tony:

What is "direct experience"? that is quite an involved
subject in itself. having a few minutes, I'd like to
put down a few thoughts on the subject.

I'd say that direct experience involves a creative outlet
for one's personal energies. when one has done something,
there is the feeling of being fulfilled, of having accomplished
something, of having truly experienced life.

It's not measured in terms of a specific type of thing
that one might do. someone could meditate and "do nothing"
and be having a direct experience. Another person might
be playing football, giving it 100 percent. A third person
could be reading and in deep thought, writing poetry, or
involved in some other intellectual activity.

The "directness" in "direct experience," I think, comes
from a sense of involvement or genuineness. It's not
measured quantitatively in terms of the number of people
affected. A hermit plodding along a snowy mountainside
may be as direct as a volunteer in an orphanage who
puts in 20 hour days in a labor of love.

We cannot measure someone else's depth of experience,
their sincerity, their quality of life in terms of how
well they imitate what we find inspiring. if I were to
like music, I could not judge the value of others by
how musical they were in life.

How then do we detect this special-ness that turns ordinary
experience into something special? It's in sensing the
fire of spirit, the creative energies, the light of
mind. that is an essence, a coloring, a "something more"
added to otherwise commonplace experiences. There's a
sense of excitement that's infectious, a sense of joy
that cannot help but be shared.

Some on the list may find this in meditation. others
may find it in deep philosophy, in a special type of
contemplating things and viewing the world. yet others
may find it in social or political activism, in doing
concrete things that materially help others, like, say,
promoting vegetarianism or fighting cigarette smoking.

We're missing the point when we might argue over which
way to achieve direct experience is "real" or "better".
it's not in the way we take at all. it's in our inner
life, as it comes out, quite independent of the external
means we express it through.

-- Eldon

at 10:24 pm 6/15/01 +0100, you wrote:


>Mark
>
>Re: direct experience.
>
>An interesting observation (including in your reply to
allas) - direct
>experience, not books - is that when we criticise others, we
often have
>those very faults in ourselves that we are criticizing the
other person for
>having. ...
>
Tony
>
>subject: re: direct experience
>from: mark kusek <mark@withoutwalls.com>
>date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:56:41 -0700
>
>Dallas,
>
I'm truly amazed that poetry elicited this response from you.
>you sound so scared and afraid of any real conscious encounter
or
>acceptance of your own life: bound to the printed word already
dead one
>hundred years. Do I misunderstand?

=============	CUT	=================