Theos-Talk Archives (May 2001 Message tt00170)

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<<<<Jerry,
You initially stated that according to the Secret Doctrine:
> No work is necessary. You don't have to learn
> or do anything except to keep reincarnating for a few
> billion years and then you will be perfect.
You seemed to object when it was pointed out to you this is not what the
Secret Doctrine states. >>>>

JERRY: You keep on saying that the SD states otherwise, Peter, and you gave
me a few quotes. My response was to the effect that I still don't see where
the SD says that personal effort is needed or else - and it is this 'or
else' that is so crucial to my position. There is nothing in HPB or anyone
else's writings to delineate an 'or else.' The learning and effort required
to peregrinate the Rounds are all naturally provided by the normal rigors of
reincarnation and "learning lessons."

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<<< However in order to show that the Secret Doctrine agrees with you, you
have had to modify, if not contradict in part, your own statement above. >>>


JERRY: I did, I admit, clarify my statement as written above. I have not
really changed anything (I still mean the same thing) but I did make a
clarification (where did I contradict anything?).

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<<<< Here are a few examples from your replies here and on theos 1. You
wrote:

> I feel sure that both Arcs [down and up] require effort,
> and just that much effort is given to us by Kundalini.>>>>>

JERRY: In other words, no more work is necessary than that demanded by the
normal daily rigors of life after life on Earth. We do not have to meditate
or accumulate merit or tread a Path in order to slowly evolve along the two
Arcs. You won't find anything in the SD to directly conflict with this. We
slowly accumulate merit as we reincarnate. When go through a long series of
terrible lives filled with sufferng and pain, we learn sensitivity. This
sensitivity allows us to slowly develop a sense of compassion for others.
The human life-wave (i.e., the average person) will spend thousands of
lifetimes doing this. This is the natural flow of events, propelled by the
evolutionary force of kundalini. We have a choice: we can go with the flow
and learn our lessons through the 'college of hard knocks' or we can
consciously tread a spiritual Path that will activate our own inner
kundalini and hasten our evolutionary development while the life-wave
merrily goes on at its normal but slow pace. This is how I interpret the SD,
and so far you haven't presented anything to contradict it.
What do you think a 5th Rounder is? How do you think a few members of our
human life-wave ever got to be 5th Rounders in the first place, if not by
what I am saying?

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>>>>> We do learn, and we do DO things. But the effort
> expended, for the most part, is natural and normal,
> and need not be excessive at all.

> Its all part of the natural Kundalini impulse
> shared by the whole life-wave.

> The "work" that is needed is only that which
> is naturally afforded through Kundalini.

I can see you have changed your initial view to bring it closer to The
Secret Doctrine. But where do you find support therein for your notion
that it is Kundalini which supplies all the effort for the downward and
upward arcs of evolution?<<<<<<<

JERRY: I did not change, nor have I changed, my initial view at all, but
simply clarified the words that I used. When I said "No work is necessary" I
meant other than the normal effort impelled by kundalini, which is the
natural evolutionary force that lies within all living beings. This 'work'
is minimal, and is gained through the 'school of hard knocks' which is our
daily life after daily life. What do you think Kundalini is, Peter? What is
your definition of it? I thought it was common knowledge that it is our
inner evolutionary force, usually lying dormant in the muladhara chakra
until activated by appropriate breathing and visualizations techniques
(which are 'work' beyond the normally expected). I suggest you read some of
the literature available. Try KUNDALINI: EVOLUTION AND ENLIGHTENMENT ed by
John White for an indepth view of all of its many facets.

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<<<<Also,
How do you think your 'minimal effort' world view fits in with the Mahatma
KH's view that:

"... in the latter half [of the 4th Round 4th Race] that the Spiritual Ego
will *begin* its real struggle with the body and mind to manifest its
transcendental powers. Who will help mankind in the forthcoming struggle?
Who? Happy the man who helps a helping hand? . . . . The same relative
development, and the same struggle continues [in the fifth round]." (Mahatma
Letter No. 14, signed KH)"

JERRY: What does this quote have to do with the need for expending personal
effort in order to evolve? Nothing. KH is talking about the "struggle" of
the Ego (cap E). Most of us don't even know we have one, let alone that it
is "struggling" for our benefit. The struggle that KH is describing here is
the natural and normal one that goes on at various times. Each time period
along the Rounds demands a certain amount of "struggle" albeit over many
lifetimes and in any one single lifetime the amount of effort expended by
the ego (small e) is not much. The "struggle" mentioned here refers to what
I said above that brings about a certain necessary degree of sensitivity. If
one postulates a series of Rounds and Races, and shows corresponding
principles and elements being expressed during them, and so on, then one
feels the need to explain how the clock-like mechanism works. Traditionally
this was explained using the concept of gods and goddesses, or various
divine powers. Blavatsky uses already existing creation myths from various
sources, but primarily Hinduism. Using her imagery, we can almost see our
Ego working away to influence our ego to do the right things at the right
times, and according to Jung, this is exactly how the archetypes do work. I
don't understand why you don't see this? What is your position, Peter? Do
you think that each person needs to tread a spiritual Path or else fall into
avichi? What would happen to our planetary Rounds & Races if the average
life-wave humanity, at any point, rejected a spiritual Path (and of course,
most have done exactly this, and continue to do such)?

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<<<<Here the Mahatma is talking about a spiritual struggle, he calls it a
"real struggle", which begins in the latter half of the 4th Round 4th Race
and which continues throughout all of the 4th and 5th Rounds. He doesn't
seem to share your minimalist view on effort, does he?
...Peter>>>>

JERRY: The "real struggle" that KH is talking about is with the Ego (cap E)
getting in touch with, and directing, the ego (little e). This usually
happens in dreams, but can also occur during the waking state (more rare but
often more effective). Yes, Peter, he does share my minimal view on effort.
Where does KH or anyone else talk about the ego (little e) needing to
struggle toward the Ego (cap E)? The former, that KH talks about, is part of
our normal evolutionary development. The latter, which I have been talking
about, hastens that development but is not really needed at all.

Jerry S.