Theos-Talk Archives (April 2001 Message tt00101)

This article, which is a collation, may or may not be useful to the
discussion; but I offer it just in case it might be:

THE ABSOLUTE ALL:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/TheAbsoluteAll.html

...it's the 1st article on this long list of "Collations":
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/index.html

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here:

Wisdom World web site (Main Page):
http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html

The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added:
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html

-------

dalval14@earthlink.net wrote:

> Tuesday, April 17, 2001
>
> Dear Friend:
> Re: THE ABSOLUTE
>
> According to Theosophical metaphysics, the ABSOLUTE is
> everywhere. It is the indefinable and property-less root of all
> manifested things. "Manifestation" springs from IT and
> eventually return to IT plus all the experience accrued.
>
> [ see S.D. II 384fn, 34, 78-9fn, 167, 240fn, 728,
> S.D. I 14, 39, 43, 54, 88, 214, 273, 295, 420, 569,
>
> No definitions can be framed by finite minds of that which is
> their SOURCE, says metaphysics, Theosophical or otherwise titled.
> The names and systems do not mean anything except to those who
> are seeing to eliminate the limitations of forms and
> circumstances, of limited perceptions, always in search of a
> CAUSE more primal and more stable than the present set of
> limitations. The process of thinking of origins is important.
> >From it emerges all the powers of perception, intelligence and
> CONSCIOUSNESS.
>
> Hope these references will help
>
> Dallas
>
> ========================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 8:34 AM
> To: Theosophy Study List
> Subject: Where is the Absolute?
>
> Where is the Absolute
>
> Theosophists tend to throw around the notion of an Absolute as
> some kind of
> Source for all of manifestation. This idea comes directly from
> Blavatsky, of
> course. But where is this absolute located? There are at least
> three
> possible places for it, using her Globes and Planes Model.
>
> Personally, I see absolute as the polar opposite of relative, and
> I believe
> that both exist only as concepts in the human mind. However, for
> those who
> insist on positing such a thing, then we have to ask where it is
> located,
> because its location will tell us much about our worldview and
> our structure
> of the model.
>
> Possibility 1. Using Blavatsky's 7 Globe 4-Plane model as
> described in the
> SD, we can say that the Absolute is just above these 4 planes. In
> the SD she
> shows three upper planes with a triangle, but says little about
> them. In the
> 7-Plane model, the Absolute could be the entire three upper
> planes. Then we
> would have the upper 3 planes as the Absolute and the lower 4
> planes as the
> relative. I think that this is exactly how many Theosophists
> would see it.
> In this way we would equate Absolute with Nirvana and say that
> the 3 upper
> planes are Nirvana and the 4 lower planes are Samsara in an
> attempt to unite
> the model with many schools of Buddhism - the 7-plane model would
> then
> address the entirty of samsara and nirvana.
>
> Possibility 2. Dozgchen, the Great Perfection, is one of the
> Tibetan schools
> of Buddhism that views samsara and nirvana as both being under
> karmic
> illusion. They posit a rigpa or Ground, which is somewhat of an
> Absolute, as
> being above both samsara and nirvana. To relate to this teaching,
> we would
> still place nirvana as the three upper planes, but this would no
> longer be
> considered an Absolute, but rather the Absolute would be outside
> of the
> whole 7 planes. Patrul Rinpoche was a famous Tibetan Nyingma
> Dzogchen
> practitioner, who said,
>
> "all appearances between the lowest hell and post-meditative
> experience of
> the tenth bodhisattva stage belong to the relative. Moreover, the
> relative
> can also be false or pure ... For a buddha who has totally
> abandoned these
> subtle habits there are no such appearances whatsoever, and he
> abides solely
> in the absolute free of interpretation." (Instructions in the
> Mahayana View,
> in J. Low, Simply BeingVajra Press, p73)
>
> Thus Dzogchen would place the Absolute above the 7-planes, and
> would make it
> habitable only by buddhas. Remember, in this view the Absolute is
> beyond
> nirvana in something perhaps like a para-nirvana.
>
> Possibility 3. In de Purucker's F-S, we see a diagram of a
> 10-plane model
> which is an attempt to compare Blavatsky's model with the three
> realms of
> Buddhism - the desire, form, and formless realms. Purucker has
> the lower 4
> planes as the desire realm, the upper 3 planes as the form realm,
> and then
> three additional planes beyond that as the formless realm. Using
> this model,
> we could place the Absolute above the whole 10 planes, or beyond
> the three
> realms altogether. I personally rather like this option, although
> I could
> also go for a 12-plane model.
>
> I offer the above conceptualizations as food for thought. Where
> do you see
> the Absolute?
>
> Jerry S.
>
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