Theos-Talk Archives (April 2001 Message tt00065)

Tuesday, April 10, 2001


An extract of correspondence is offered here to show how
theosophy can answer some doubts and difficulties.


Dear "M"

Some comments below

Dal

====================

Subject: progress/Progress?

[ I observe they ] wrote partly:
-------------------------------------------------------

1. I am trying to eliminate the illogic
that I see in some Theosophical writings. It is
totally illogical to say on the one hand that we
"progress" and then on the other hand say that we have no
beginning or
end. The "progress" seen by science does have a start - the Big
Bang,
but no one can say what happened before that event nor where the
original dense matter came from, nor why it exploded, etc. etc.

=========

2. "M" offers the following observations / queries:

The following is offered as the musings of a fairly new student
of
theosophy who has yet to read/learn what Theosophy has to
more-specifically say about these matters:

Seems that we "progress" on whatever interpretive
level/manner---"progress" being a comparative/dualistic concept:
so
"progress" seems (primarily and/or Primarily?) an inherent
interpretive/dualistic component within limited/perceived
Dualistic
Involution/Evolution?
------------------------------------------------
3. DTB This sounds like a lot of lower-mind confusion.
Needs to have the permanent and useful weeded out of it. Let's
use Theosophy and give it a try.

Everything starts from a common SOURCE. This source cannot be
examined by the "embodied mind" we all have and use, because we
have not developed experience and "equipment" on this physical
plane to do that. The Source in a way is utterly transcendent
and may be aid to be the polar opposite of the present physical
limitations. It is like comparing BUDDHI with kama.

There is no comparison unless one is willing to admit that BUDDHI
is wisdom based on a full knowledge of all the LAWS NATURE USES
TO OPERATE BY It is characterized by continuous VIRTUE in moment
to moment operation. It is a state of benevolence which arises
only from WISDOM.

Kama, on the other hand is self-opinionated, isolationist,
selfish and vicious. It is destructive, because of ignorance of
the LAWS OF NATURE, which provide for the improvement and
progress of all beings. It is careless of others and their
needs. It holds that its need transcend any others and it fails
to see the end result of its wishes, desires passions and
longings.

It is the objective of Theosophy to present these two divergent
lines for consideration so that the embodied mind (Lower-Manas)
becomes aware of its self-made doom. It sets its own parameters
of ease and comfort, and by eliminating those considerations that
involve the needs and rights of others it writes its own failure.

---------------------------------------------

M: But does that same "progress" have a Higher, or Universal
ASPECT to it,
beyond dualism?

DTB Dualism is endless extension and divergence.

Hence it is not used except as a basis to mathematically bridge
from 1 to 3. Philosophically, metaphysically, and logically the
2 leads to destruction and confusion - chaos. The 3rd line is
one that limits and divides folly from wisdom. The 3rd line
creates a TRIANGLE -- the 1st FIGURE on a plane after the CIRCLE.
The triangle is a definition on a plane whether physical as in
plane geometry or in thought as in logic.

Even if one looks at a CIRCLE, we observe that on this selected
PLANE we have:
1. the background;
2. the circumference;
3. the central dot;
4 the isolation of "substance" made inside the circumference as
compared with the "substance ?" of the background. -- we thus
have 4 separate and necessary divisions to indicate the very
first flutter of Manifestation (or rather of a return to the
school of Learning for all beings.

Consider then we have 7 Planes and the Plane can be altered
through experience into a SPHERE or a CUBE or some kind of volume
within the all-encompassing VOLUME of the WHOLE -- which forever
remains undefined.
---------------------------------------------

M I seem to suspect that "progress" as we know of it (such
as it is, with
warts and all) is our Link with some Higher order of "Progress"
that
might, (possibly?), be more-appropriately known by some other
name in
its non-dualistic aspect.

In other words, many of us might wonder what "progress" means
beyond
dualism: what might be the Higher significance of
progress/Progress? I
wonder if it might have something to do with the "experience"
aspect of
Existence/Experience: if "progress" is a dualistic concept
that's
inseparable from perceived/interpretive dualistic experience,
then, (in
addition?), could that same "progress" be the dualistic version
(interpretive aspect) of Whatever it might link with that might
(dualistically speaking) "benefit" from "progress"? So that the
Beginning and the Ending (Evolution/Involution) might be
"Interpretive
Aspect-Links" (part of our dualistic
perceived/interpretive-"progressive" "World") with All That Is?
-----------------------------------------------------

DTB Theosophy holds that evolution starts as a
recycling of unexpended energy.

The source of that energy is to be found in an earlier
manifestation, which on closure, retained the full details of
"unfinished business" for every being involved in that
development, without any exceptions. In other words the
individual KARMA of a large and diversified mass of beings (each
conscious at their own level) when taken as a "mass" becomes the
collective KARMA of a whole re-manifestation after the general
"sleep" of any system, be that a mineral, a plant, an animal, a
human, or an INDIVIDUAL OF WISDOM, and continuing further this
sweep of the concept, our Earth, a Solar System, or a whole
UNIVERSE -- nature operates and always has operated
analogetically.
===================================


M. That is, if Perfection in the form of All That Is is
beyond notions of
dualistic "progress," it would seem to me that there might still
be
some form of non-dualistic "Progress" (whatever that might Really
be)
that might SOMEHOW Link with dualistic "progress" as we know of
it: in
effect conferring on our various notions of "progress" our Path
(in
Theosophic terms).
----------------------------------------------------

DTB "Perfection" is in itself a contradiction as in
an infinite universe it only represents a relative stage, either
for a particular individual of a system, such as our Earth
represents. For those minds that are only familiar with the
"here and now" of their embodied existence, a seeming
"graduation" is offered as a concept indicating the finalized
purpose of a particular field of endeavor -- say, this Earth of
ours. On thought it should be clear that as one proceeds as an
"Eternal Pilgrim" the succession of "Perfections" is also
infinite.
=====================================================


M. Also, since HPB is on record as having conveyed words to
the effect that
"Theosophy is altruism pure and simple," I tend to interpret that
as
another indication of defining an aspect of "progressive"
Link-making
since, as I see it, there would seem to be a meaningful
similarity
between "progress" and "altruism."

--------------------------------------------------------

DTB ALTRUISM implies treating every living being as a
brother.
If at the core of every being (from the "LIFE-ATOM" on up) is an
IMMORTAL MONAD., then every being is an IMMORTAL and is due the
respect and consideration of a brother.

Monads may differ in terms of level of consciousness and
awareness achieved, but are all brothers in view of their
identity of common source and existence. Progress relates to the
developing sense of consciousness, awareness and RESPONSIBILITY
that is voluntarily assumed (of a protective, a service, and a
charitable nature) by each human-stage Monad.
------------------------------------------------


M. To quote again:

"I am trying to eliminate the illogic
that I see in some Theosophical writings. It is
totally illogical to say on the one hand that we
"progress" and then on the other hand say that we have no
beginning or
end."
=====

So could it be that certain authors of Theosophical writings
might have
had in mind some sort of Link (on some fundamental non-dualistic
level?) between
apparent (as per G---, apparently?) "illogical progress", on the
one
hand, and some form of non-dualistic "Progress", on the other
hand, (for
want of a better name/description)?

DTB Perhaps what is written above will clear this
last query up ? All "Progress" is simultaneously
1. Linear to the materially limited mind;

2. planar to the mind that perceives the possibility of a 7 x 7 =
sharing of the faculties, qualities and implications of a 7-fold
set of "Principles" in nature and in Man. And

3. volumetric ( or solid ) as one that is able to perceive any
and all functions, powers in operation, Karma, potentials, etc...
from the Causal SOURCE to the ultimate and final resolution back
into the ONE WHOLE of all beings involved in Evolution.
This is of course as I see it, and it ought to be the subject of
careful consideration and possible revision. Are there any
observations on this that would further enlarge our study?
Best wishes,
Dal

==========================


Something like that?

PS Sorry if I'm displaying my ignorance here. Of course the
reader
may have thought of all that and more already.