Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00231)

Dear Doss:

I am glad to see your fine opinion on this. Did you convey this
to Dr. Tillett? I am sure it might help him in his decisions.

I know you have made a study of the problems of Internet and
copyright.

I had done the same years ago when in Eat Asia countries "piracy"
was rampant.

Dal

==================


-----Original Message-----
From: ramadoss@infohwy.com [mailto:ramadoss@infohwy.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:49 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Theos-World HPB Correspondence

Thanks, Dallas.

I concur with you.

The contract need to be reviewed by a competent attorney to see
what rights
parties have and what they do not have. Attorneys can, using wide
ranging
arguments, claim rights even none exists. It looks to me that the
matter
may have to be resolved by attorneys of respective parties
especially
because if there is any violation in future by either party,
recourse may
be available through the US Court System. Of course, in such an
eventuality, with the contingency litigation allowed in the US
legal
system, many attorneys would be interested to jump in especially
when they
see deep pockets. It would be interesting to see how things get
resolved.
Whatever may be the final resolution, from a PR point of view,
the
situation does not do any good especially in the light of the
First Object.

Again I feel the John Cooper could have avoided the current
situation by
publishing his work on the Internet for free and still keeping
his
copyright rights as well as keeping free of vested editing or
censoring.
Again this should be an eye opener for any theosophical writer
contemplating publishing.

mkr

At 06:31 AM 2/26/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks Doss:
>
>Apparently the TPH thinks they can lock this book away, as they
>seem to believe they have a copyright on the FORMAT AND NOTES
>that the late Mr. John Cooper wrote, and which presented the HPB
>letters he has collected.
>
>The letters themselves cannot be copyrighted.
>
>If he has a valid contract which ought to be specifically voided
>if he predeceases any publication then TPH has nothing but a
>shell and no content.
>
>That's as I see it.
>
>Dal
>
>================
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: M K Ramadoss [mailto:ramadoss@infohwy.com]
>Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:19 PM
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB Correspondence
>
>We should thank Dr. Tillett in taking the time to keep us all
>uptodate on
>the present situation on the matter. This would not have been
>possible but
>for the Internet and the uncensored maillist (thanks to Eldon)
>outside the
>control of theosophical organization(s).
>
>After many many issues being discussed on this and other
>maillists relative
>to many organizational and philosophical and personal matters,
>nothing
>surprises one any more.
>
>Copyright issue seems like a very great stretch by any one
>claiming
>copyright to HPB letters. (What next? Claim copyright to the
Book
>of Dzyan
>and Ancient Wisdom itself?)
>
>Copyright scholars would be greatly interested about the legal
>basis for
>such a claim and appears to be an innovative theory which may
>give fodder
>for many starving attorneys to put food on the table!!!
>
>It looks like the matter may be heading for formal legal
>resolution, since
>one party has chosen to communicate through attorneys and
>everyone should
>be interested and should keep tuned.
>
>The developing situation may interest attorneys on this list!
>
>mkr
>
>PS: Has John Cooper chosen to publish his research in a
>serialized manner
>on the Internet, much of the present situation could have been
>avoided.
>Also all of us would have free access to the material at no
>cost!!! May be
>it is a lesson for any researcher currently in the process of
>developing
>some valuable research which can benefit Humanity immediately,
>not long
>after everyone is dead and gone!
>
>
>
>
>At 08:34 AM 2/25/01 +1100, Dr Gregory Tillett wrote:
> >I refer to the statement published some time ago on
Theos-World
>by Dallas
> >in which he stated that: ³I understand that Prof. John Cooper
of
>Australia
> >was in the process of editing in 2 volumes HPBıs letters and
the
>first
> >volume is ready for printing. The second volume is being
edited
>for him as
> >his recent death interrupted this work.² I have no way of
>knowing whether
> >this statement is based on information from the Theosophical
>Publishing
> >House, Wheaton. However, as the agent of Johnıs family in this
>matter, I
> >feel obliged to offer the following statement. I apologize the
>the length
> >of the statement, but I consider that those interested in
>Theosophical
> >history ought to know what has been happening. The ³two
volumes²
>would,
> >indeed, be some five or six volumes if all the correspondence
>collected
> >and compiled by John was published.
> >-----------------
> >STATEMENT REGARDING DR JOHN COOPERıS COMPILATION OF
> >THE COLLECTED CORRESPONDENCE OF MADAME BLAVATSKY
> >
> >Since the death of my esteemed colleague and friend, John
>Cooper, many
> >people have contacted me and others regarding the future of
the
>volume of
> >Madame Blavatskyıs correspondence which John had compiled and
>edited (and
> >for which he was posthumously awarded his Ph.D.).
> >
> >The first volume of the HPB correspondence was originally
>compiled with
> >the intention that it would be published by the Theosophical
>Publishing
> >House, Wheaton, and John had entered into a contract with that
>publisher.
> >
> >Following Johnıs untimely death on May 12, 1998, his widow,
>Shirley,
> >received a number of letters and telephone calls regarding the
>volume of
> >the HPB correspondence, and Johnıs library and archives. She
>found many of
> >these communications intimidating and intrusive, and, in a
least
>one case,
> >received a letter which was rude and threatening. Johnıs
family
>therefore
> >asked me to act as literary executor on behalf of his estate,
>and to
> >undertake all correspondence and discussions regarding the
>proposed
> >publication of the HPB correspondence, and Johnıs library and
>archives.
> >
> >Acting on behalf of Johnıs family, on June 29, 1999 I wrote to
>Dr John
> >Algeo, of the Theosophical Society in America, in response to
a
>number of
> >letters from him to Mrs Cooper. I advised Dr Algeo that I was
>acting on
> >behalf of the family, and that neither Mrs Cooper nor Johnıs
>children
> >wished to be involved in future discussions regarding the
>proposed
> >publication other than through me as their agent. I both faxed
>and mailed
> >this letter to Dr Algeo, and, when I had not received a reply
by
>August
> >24, 1999, I again wrote to him, again faxing and mailing the
>letter.
> >
> >Dr Algeo replied on August 24 (by fax), but appeared to
believe
>that, with
> >Johnıs death, all rights in the material he had collected for
>the proposed
> >volume had passed to the Theosophical Publishing House,
Wheaton,
>and that
> >Johnıs family (as the beneficiaries of Johnıs estate) had no
>rights in the
> >matter. On the same day, Dr Algeo wrote to Mrs Cooper advising
>that he
> >proposed to visit her in October, 1999. Dr Algeo also wrote to
>me again on
> >August 30 advising that he intended to visit Mrs Cooper ³to
get
>whatever
> >material I can pertaining to the HPB letters.²
> >
> >Having consulted with Johnıs family, I replied to Dr Algeo
>(sending my
> >letter by e-mail, fax and post) on September 3, 1999. I
advised
>Dr Algeo
> >that Johnıs family did not wish to be involved in any
>correspondence
> >regarding the proposed volume, or in relation to Johnıs vast
>collection of
> >material on Theosophical history, and that they had asked me
to
>deal with
> >all such matters. The family had considered having their
>attorney write to
> >Dr Algeo to make a formal request that he desist from
troubling
>Mrs Cooper
> >with further communications, but I advised them that this
would
>surely not
> >be necessary.
> >
> >I advised Dr Algeo that Mrs Cooper did not wish him to visit
>her, and that
> >the family would not release any material to him. I again
>advised Dr Algeo
> >that I was acting as the agent of the family, and that any
>further and
> >future communications in the matter of the proposed volume and
>Johnıs
> >library and archives would therefore have to be with me. I
>advised Dr
> >Algeo that, since he was proposing to visit Australia, I would
>be happy to
> >make myself available to meet with him in the hope that any
>difficulties
> >in the publication of the HPB correspondence could be
resolved.
> >
> >On behalf of Johnıs family, I had taken legal advice from an
>American
> >attorney, and I advised Dr Algeo that his advice (no less than
>the advice
> >I had also received regarding the Australian legal position)
was
>that
> >Johnıs rights in the proposed volume (and as referred to in
>Johnıs
> >contract with the Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton) had
>now passed
> >to his beneficiaries (his ³legal successors² in the words of
the
> >contract), and that decisions made by the Theosophical
>Publishing House,
> >Wheaton, with regard to changes it apparently intended to make
>(including
> >apparent proposals for deleting or amending correspondence)
from
>the first
> >volume, could not occur without the consent of Johnıs family.
I
>set out
> >the familyıs position regarding matters to do with the
copyright
>of the
> >manuscript of the proposed volume in some detail, and asked
that
>any
> >proposals for changes to the manuscript be forwarded to me as
>soon as possible.
> >
> >I also indicated that the family would provide whatever
>assistance it
> >could give to facilitate the publication of the first volume
>(which
> >already exists in manuscript form), and of subsequent volumes
>(for which
> >John had already collected a vast amount of material). I
>indicated that
> >the family hoped that the correspondence could be published in
>the
> >Collected Writings series. However, I advised Dr Algeo that
any
>such
> >cooperation would require consultation with the family, and
not
>arbitrary
> >decisions by the Theosophical Publishing House of which the
>family was
> >simply informed.
> >
> >I also noted that Mrs Cooper had received what can only be
>described as an
> >offensive and aggressive letter from an eminent American
>Theosophist, who
> >is a member of an ³Editorial Board² apparently appointed by
the
> >Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, to take control of the
>publication
> >of Johnıs manuscript of HPB correspondence (ignoring the
>provisions of the
> >contract between John and the Theosophical Publishing House,
>Wheaton).
> >
> >I have still not received a reply to my letter (and fax and
>e-mail) of
> >September 3, 1999.
> >
> >Dr Algeo was in Australia recently, and I wrote to him at the
>Australian
> >headquarters of the Theosophical Society, and faxed a copy of
>that letter
> >to the National President of the Society in Australia asking
>that she pass
> >it on to Dr Algeo. I sought a meeting with Dr Algeo in an
>attempt to
> >resolve the outstanding issues raised in my letter of
September
>3, 1999. I
> >have received a letter from the National President (Ms
Beverley
>Champion)
> >dated January 22, 2001, acknowledging receipt of the letters
for
>Dr Algeo,
> >and stating that she gave the faxed copy of the letter to him.
I
>have
> >received no communication from Dr Algeo.
> >
> >Having read on Theos-World the suggestion that the first
volume
>of the HPB
> >correspondence was to be published by the Theosophical
>Publishing House, I
> >wrote to the Theosophical Publishing House informing them that
>Johnıs
> >family did not give, and specifically refused, permission for
>such
> >publication until and unless the issues relating to its rights
>in the
> >matter were resolved.
> >
> >I subsequently received a letter from attorneys acting for the
> >Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, and the Theosophical
>Society in
> >America. This letter made a number of remarkable assertions.
For
>example,
> >it asserted that the Theosophical Publishing House and the
>Theosophical
> >Society in America ³currently hold the copyright on the H.P.
>Blavatsky
> >Letters², and that ³Any obligations or duties of my client
under
>the
> >contract with Mr. Cooper would have terminated upon his
death.²
>Just how
> >copyright can be held on letters written or received over a
>hundred years
> >ago remains unexplained, as does the question of how any
rights
>in
> >relation to letters found or obtained by John independently of
>the
> >Theosophical Publishing House can now be claimed by them.
> >
> >The letter further asserts that John acknowledged that all
>rights in
> >relation to all letters were held by the Theosophical
Publishing
>House.
> >Although I have searched extensively, I have been unable to
find
>in Johnıs
> >files any such sweeping acknowledgement.
> >
> >The letter notes that ³It is not the intention of [the
>Theosophical
> >Publishing House] to utilize any editorial notes or
introductory
>essays of
> >Mr Cooper with respect to any published work of the H.P.
>Blavatsky
> >Letters.² This, presumably, means that any volume of HPB
>correspondence
> >published by the Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton will
not
>include
> >any material written by John, any editorial comments compiled
by
>John, or
> >any letters obtained as a result of Johnıs independent
research.
> >
> >The letter concludes with a predictable legal threat of court
>action
> >should any attempt be made to publish (other than with the
>Theosophical
> >Publishing House) any material relating to the HPB
>correspondence.
> >
> >I have referred the attorneyıs letter to a US attorney (since
>copyright
> >and contract law may well be different in the USA to
Australia).
> >
> >Johnıs family is eager for the HPB correspondence to be
>published, but it
> >will not allow the Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, or
Dr
>Algeo, or
> >anyone else, to simply take over the rights in the publication
>which the
> >contract between John and the Theosophical Publishing House,
>Wheaton,
> >specifically declares to lie with John or ³his successors².
John
>spent
> >many years and much effort and money in his collection of and
>research
> >into the HPB correspondence, as is evidenced by the vast
>collection of
> >material in his archives. His doctoral thesis (which was,
>essentially,
> >intended to be the basis for the first volume of the HPB
>correspondence)
> >provides evidence of the extent of material he gathered
>independently of
> >the Theosophical Society in America or the Theosophical
>Publishing House,
> >and of his diligence in ensuring scholarly accuracy and
>impartiality in
> >presenting the correspondence.
> >
> >It is entirely probable that Dr Algeo has no wish to deal with
>me.
> >However, I am the agent of the estate of John Cooper in this
>matter, and
> >it will therefore not be possible for the publication of the
>proposed
> >volume to proceed unless the Theosophical Publishing House,
>Wheaton, is
> >prepared to communicate with me, to recognize the rights of
>Johnıs family
> >in relation to the proposed volume, and to respond to their
>requests.
> >
> >John had wanted a clause included in the contract that
>specifically
> >assigned the right to determined ³what is published in the
>letters² to him
> >(or his successors)[clause 1(g)]. John deliberately had this
>clause
> >included in the contract. He was (as he told me on several
>occasions,
> >including on the night before his death, and as he told
others)
>concerned
> >that attempts might be made to inappropriately edit, ³censor²
or
>amend the
> >text of the HPB correspondence. As I have written to Dr Algeo,
>Johnıs
> >family is quite willing to consider editorial changes, but it
is
>not
> >prepared to allow them until and unless any proposed changes
are
>explained
> >and justified to them, and approved by them.
> >
> >Thus, unfortunately, the proposal to publish the first volume
of
>the HPB
> >correspondence remains stalled. Interest has been expressed by
>several
> >others publishers in the possibility of taking on the project,
>and this
> >option is currently being explored.
> >
> >I must say that I have been totally appalled by the arrogant
>attitude of
> >the Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, in this whole
>matter. The
> >distress that has been caused to Mrs Cooper is scandalous,
and,
>coming
> >from an organization that lays claim to principles of
³Universal
> >Brotherhood² even more so.
> >
> >The first volume (at least) of the Blavatsky correspondence
>will -
> >eventually - be published, in its entirety and without
>ideologically based
> >censorship, whether by the Theosophical Publishing House,
>Wheaton, or by
> >one of the other publishers who have already expressed
interest
>in taking
> >over the project. John was a close friend and collaborator of
>mine for
> >more than twenty years, and I will do all within my power to
>ensure that
> >his scholarly standards and professional integrity are not
>diminished
> >after his death.
>
>
>
>
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