Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00132)

Monday, February 19, 2001

May I butt in ?


Dallas offers:

As I see it, and trying to reconcile the lines of thought
offered:


The main question (to me) is what is "containing" what?

Next: Why is "containment" necessary or possible? From which
line of evolution does it emerge?

Who or what in us is the "director" of the Mind -- in order to
achieve a sense of awareness, whether of one or many things?

It seems that on one hand we are "the MIND," and on the other, at
times, "WE" are the director and controller of the MIND -- We
make of the Mind our tool. How is this possible?

For instance, thousands of things happen in our body every
instant -- How does the Brain register, compare, decide on a
suitable reaction?

At what point does the Brain decide to call our (the
"Director's") attention to a particular event affecting the body?

What then ensues? Attention to the lesion (if any) or the
"pleasure (if any) ensues, evaluation in terms of memory is
awakened, comparison occurs, decisions as to response are made:
CHOICES.

In the tests described one may see how the Lower Mind is trained.
But, why is it so trained? Why should one view others as
"asleep?"

If the Theosophical concept that the HIGHER SELF voluntarily
incarnates in the LOWER SELF for the purpose of free and
un-compelling assistance to the Lower Self -- to make its own
progress an actuality, then, this work is in the nature of the
harmless, yet veritable improvement which is self-generated,
after the process and potential results are first shown to the
pupil?

Does not the Higher Self invite the Lower Self to become
eventually as it is, and without any obligation whatsoever?

These are important questions. (to me, at least.)

Theosophy defines the Higher Self as ATMA, as a "Ray" of the ONE
UNIVERSAL SPIRIT. Memory (Buddhi), thought (Mind), desire and
emotion (Kama), vitality (Prana / Jiva), structure (Astral Body),
and substance (Physical Matter) mark a chain of interaction from
the highest and most universal (Atma) to the lowest and most
changeable (physical molecules and atoms, constantly being
exchanged) At no time is it possible for us to separate
ourselves from the UNIVERSAL FIELD that SPIRIT / ATMA represents.
(or does it ?)

Two centres of CONSCIOUSNESS are found to be posited there in
THEOSOPHY: SPIRIT and MATTER (which constitute first, the
UNIVERSAL MONAD, and then, all the milliards of MONADS that fill
space and are the "eternal Pilgrims" on their way to the "goal of
PERFECTION" : : UNIVERSAL SELF CONSCIOUSNESS. Between SPIRIT
and MATTER is the MIND PRINCIPLE (Manas) It serves to survey the
two cooperative and inter-acting (yet opposed) elements in the
Monad.

The Higher Mind (Buddhi-Manas) is linked to its counterpart :
LOWER MIND (or Kama-Manas -- the desire mind, with its many
emotions, needs and wants) In between, pure MANAS is the
PERCEIVER, the WITNESS, the OBSERVER that which constantly
evaluates sensory reports and generates the causes for responses
: ideas, words, acts. This is the picture that THEOSOPHY (as I
see it) gives us of ourselves as presently situated . The
decisive faculty to CHOOSE always resides in the MIND. The rest
of the 7 principles gives a concept of the potential and the
ramifications of creatures in evolution (we included) who are by
FREE-CHOICE actively building our own future. We as Monads are
in constant touch with all other Monads and we all rise or fall
together by this process. Our decisions help or retard the
progress not only of ourselves, but of all the rest. This why
Theosophy has BROTHERHOOD as one of its Objects.

Do we make of ourselves "Angels" or "Devils" This ultimate
decision is one that confronts us every moment of the day.

In brief: Are we going to help and enforce (by the discipline of
self-choice) on our lower selves the great LAWS OF NATURE, or
are we going to join the ranks of the disaffected, disappointed,
proud and selfish multitudes, who actively desire to remake the
Universe into something they alone will "enjoy?" And those have
no regard for anyone else but themselves. The rest are to be
their slaves and supporters. To me this is a pretty grim picture
and to express it is painful. Now let us see if it is possible
with the information in hand to decide which is the better "Path"
to adopt for ourselves?

Are we going to "help" and "serve" our BROTHERS, or are we going
to isolate ourselves in such caves of isolation as we may devise?
I find THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE by H.P.B. very valuable as a
"tool" to help decide what I ought to do and which would serve to
give optimum results.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=====================


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce [mailto:bhive@alphalink.com.au]
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 6:12 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Re: Containment

Dear Tony,
> What a strange idea?

Not so strange really, and since it is from the "suck it and see"
school, it is eminently testable.

>Where do such thoughts originate from, or where did
> Gurdjieff get them from?

Student to teacher having stood the test of time.


> To focus on one's gums and teeth when cleaning them, seems to
very
> conveniently take thought away from focussing on the ONE LIFE,
for
example.

It is better to be more conscious than not. Consciousness can be
painful therefore an intensifying of it cannot at all be said to
be "convenient". It is an _exercise_. It requires_effort_.

One's whole day does not have to be taken up with exercises.

Once Gurdjieff gave an exercise to Ouspensky of keeping an eye on
the
second hand of his watch while keeping conscious of his "I". This
proveed to be a difficult exercise. When Ouspensky achieved it,
he
went into the local villiage and found to his dismay that they
all
appeared to him to be asleep!

All occult exercises can have adverse reactions. To prevent this
there are special exercises one can do. Such exercises are of the
will, thinking etc.

> Women are particularly adept at doing several different things
at
the same
> time, especially when bringing up children.


That is not the point. You are never conscious of all the
workings of
your internal organs either. In order to learn the piano to begin
with your have to be conscious of your fingers and where they go-
this later becomes automatic.

"Containment is necessary to and part of incarnation. The spirit
form
may
spread out in space to the point of that "it may not
differentiate
between
another being and itself, particularly if there are respondent
sympathies."

Why one does these things:
1. For the benefits of body of soul.
2. To strengthen the consciousnes so that one doesn't live one's
life
in a dreamm.


> And with breathing, there was a case where someone ended up by
having to
> positively think about taking a breath in, and then think about
breathing
> out.

This a different matter. This is not to be practised with
breathing.

"Without rest, reflection and containment we would be
continually "going with
the flow" to the point where we would no longer differentiate our
being."

Warm Regards,
Bruce