Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00062)

February 5, 2001

Posted for JEROME

D

==============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Wheeler [mailto:ultinla@juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 7:04 PM
To: dalval14@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Fact

Perhaps Dallas will probably post this for me--- thanks

Dear Jim:
No, you don't need to take anything on "faith' --but keep in mind
that
most of us are what could be called "failures in practising what
we
preach" --- Therefore we tend to sound hollow and make-believe a
good
deal of the time --- a little bit like secondhand echoes.

Follow your heart and refuse to imitate other person's
imitations. Go
inside and find that teashop where the tea tastes most
satisfying,
nutritious, and with zipp. Real saints, whether they be
prebyterians,
catholics, buddhists, theosophists, or what not don't care too
much
whether you join their card game or not, but THEY---EVERYONE OF
THEM---
ARE VITALLY INTERESTED IN YOU following your own path and not
some
external will-o-the-wisp that may take you straight to hell while
doing
it in the most eloquent spiritual language.

Our heart-- yours,mine, everyone's, has not fully uttered itself
just yet
so the art of listening is a virtue that can unfold a whole
panorama of
intellect in a flash. Schopenhauer received his inspiration in a
moment's flash and spent the rest of his life "writing it out" so
that
what actually visited him as a flash of intuition took years and
years to
write down on paper & expound.
Well, I better get back to pushing my shopping cart! and good
evening,
jerome

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:59:10 -0800 dalval14@earthlink.net writes:
> Dear Jim:
>
> I think the tone of settle conviction, which students of
> theosophy who have studied it vigorously for many years,
emerges
> because it is not a belief system at all.
>
> It is said to present ideas and study concepts that have been
> current for millions of years and studied in far greater detain
> than our sole contact with the universe this incarnation though
> the medium of the tangible matter we deal with daily provides.
>
> The Science and Art of Theosophical systems include also the
> philosophy, psychology and religious views of those who in
> ancient times, as in more modern ones,, here in the West, abs
in
> the East, have developed, checked and verified by minute
> comparison of the activities and workings of Nature.
>
> The concepts of Universal Law, of the evolution of the
Mind/soul,
> not only in humans, but also in other beings, animals, for
> instance, and those men who have surpassed our limited mental
> capacities, reincarnation, karma, cooperation, interaction,
> benevolence, generosity, assistance and service -- far surpass
> any limited views developed with this concept of personality as
a
> selfish, isolated, and territorially limited for this single
> life, concept ever has.
>
> The vista of the field of learning stretches out into the
future
> with no apparent limits (save the illusion of death and
> dissolution we find developed and manufactured for us to
stumble
> into.) The vista of the past is also found to be limited by
the
> senseless destruction of libraries and monuments. It is not
> necessary to go into the many details of a sad destruction of
> history we all suffer from.
>
> Then there is the systematic mutilation of ancient texts basic
to
> all religions and social mores -- which are, as presently
> translated, shaped by the modern ideas of antiquity for which
no
> sound base can be found established except in fancy -- calling
> our ancestors savages, and ignorant in no way elevates us, as
we
> see modern savages and great ignorance right at hand everywhere
> as far as our civilization goes.
>
> To drive a car, steer a boat, fly an airplane or type and run a
> calculator is no sign of great ability -- 2,000 years from now
> these various pieces of apparatus will be destroyed and hardly
> any traces of them will exist. What then is imperishable?
>
> Books -- well perhaps 2,000 year if they are on some
imperishable
> fabric, but I have books in my library that are 50 or 75 years
> old and they are disintegrating.
>
> When we come to ideas which are not all inscribed we say there
> will be no tangible evidence of their existence. Yet, they
need
> to be immortalized. Scrutinized. Checked for accuracy, etc...
> This is precisely what Theosophy does: it records, it teaches,
> it asks for intense scrutiny, it claims no AUTHORITY, no
> UNIQUENESS. It seeks to evoke from the depths of each persons'
> consciousness the living record of metaphysics, of morality and
> ethics, of the capacity to rediscover that wisdom inherent in
> each of us. It makes of each man and woman their own priest
and
> resists most strongly the blind acceptance of authoritative
> proclamations. What could be freer or more desirable to
possess?
>
> Theosophy seeks no proselytes. It presents a survey of our
> universe and opens doors for us to carry on our own
development.
> It recommends our searching within our own selves for the great
> secrets and wisdom Nature had preserved for us there.
>
> It is necessary to study the message of theosophy and discover
> for ones' self the fundamental concepts displayed for us to
> consider and use if we wish to. It does not cater to a host of
> "blind believers." It asks for minds to open and seek the
light
> of the ages which shines from within each of us. To find that
> our terrene eyes need to become clearer.
>
> What is faith? It is either the memory of what we have
> experienced, or it is the display of what others have
experienced
> or rationalized. In either case the methods used, the
> perceptions and events witnessed have inherent patters that
> relate to universal ideas, concepts, and experience. It is for
> us to transform "belief" into "certainty" by applying these
three
> touch-stones to any memory, or account we are presented with.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dallas
>
> ===========================
>
>
> From: Jim Rodak [mailto:rodakjl@pcola.gulf.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:29 PM
> To: Theosophy Study List
> Cc: Theosophy Study List
> Subject: Faith vs. Fact
>
> Greetings ~ The more I read on these lists, the greater my
sense
> is that
> many respondents are so convinced of their positions re:
whatever
> is under
> discussion that much of what is being presented as fact are
none
> other than
> models of what their whole structure is purported to be. And
> where did the
> information that the models are based on come from? From the
> experiences
> and readings the originators - and from those with whom the
> originators -
> were exposed to. There is very little that I have read that is
> "original"
> with the founders of whatever belief system is under
discussion.
> Much of it
> is nothing more that a synthesis of the originator's
experiences
> and
> writings, regurgitated and given a spin in the form that we see
> presently.
> Therefore, are we not expected to take it on "faith" that what
is
> presented
> has credibility and validity - i.e., "faith" as defined as "
the
> firm belief
> in something for which there is no proof; complete confidence
> that what is
> postulated is true but not based on fact?"
>
> I believe that I can safely state that every so often we all
get
> an
> intuitive "gut feeling" that some ideas and proposals have "a
> ring of truth"
> to them. However, I also strongly believe it essential that
we
> always keep
> in mind that when we are discussing many of these subjects that
> we are
> examining none other than another person's model of that person
> beliefs as
> to "how things are" and discriminate between what are facts of
> the matter
> and what are matters that we are simply putting our faith in.
By
> examing
> these subject areas in this context, I believe that we rise
above
> the
> tendency to get bogged down, emotionally and intellectually,
with
> matters
> that may, in reality, be nothing more than a chimera.
>
> Until next time! Fraternally and respectfully, Jim Rodak
>
>
> ---
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