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RE: [bn-sd] Gene's questions: MAYA,

Jan 31, 2001 12:03 PM
by dalval14

Tuesday, January 30, 2001
Re: Maya - Illusion

Dear Peter (and all):

If MAYA is a state of Being in which all units of
substance/intelligence are seen to be limited in time, space and
matter; and hence viewed as "illusion" -- then there is
SOMETHING for which time, space and our level of intelligence
does not count as important. Is this not because they are in
themselves unlimited? (Or, they have risen to the level where
our kind of "limitations and maya: no longer limit them? Yet at
their need or desire, they seem to be able to penetrate to any
level of "MAYA" they as stable entities are not affected by
"illusion or Maya."

We speak of sleeping, dreaming, trance, other plane experiences,
mediumship, channeling, meditation, and experiences on other
planes or intermediate planes, such as lucid dreaming, or
out-of-body experiences, etc... Are we not demonstrating that
there is in us an ENTITY which is able to pass into those states,
experience somethig there, and then, if our waking-brain-mind is
sufficiently SENSITIVE we may "bring back some coherent or
inchoate expressions of MEMORY concerning that kind of event?

But why not probe deeper and ask ourselves how they arise, and
what is the nature of such limitations? In view of those which
belong to the categories of manifestation, and even
non-manifestation are named in Theosophy the ubiquitous HOST OF
MONADS (basically the countless entities embodying the polar
opposites of SPIRIT and MATTER) and, each has its own level of
intelligence and consciousness -- achieved by long aeons of
experience of one kind or another.-- all regulated by the

Why does WHOLENESS, and UNITY demand a knowledge of ITSELF?

Do we not find a hint given in S.D. II 176 and T. Glos p. 171
where an old Verse from the Vedas is quoted:

"Desire first arose in IT, which was the primal germ of mind, and
which Sages, searching with their intellect, have discovered in
their heart to be the bond that connects Entity with Non-Entity,"
[or MANAS with pure ATMA-BUDDHI."]

Is that SOMETHING an entity (or a WHOLENESS) which views the
illusions and is not ITSELF an illusion?

To accurately calculate variation, one of the observers has to be
stable or still. [ Example: We call some of the distant Stars
the "Fixed Stars." Yet some observations months, years apart
show that they are moving in orbits of their own. The Sun seems
to be stable as our Earth rotates around it, yet we also know by
observation that the Sun has an orbit which takes 25,868 of our
years to complete around the center of our Galaxy -- the "Milky
Way." Each of the Zodiacal Constellations is traversed by our
Sun in about 3155 years (in 1887/88 on Feb. 18th, H.P.B. says
we moved out of Pices and into the Sign of Aquarius -- [ H.P.B.
III, p. 169 fn.) or (BCW Vol. 4, p. 232-5 footnote) ] Each day
we can note the Moon as she advances by almost 50 minutes daily
so as to complete her revolution around our Earth in around 27/28
days. The Earth moves around the Sun in 365 1/4 days -- so every
4th year is a "Leap-year" and a day (Feb 29th) is added. To take
care of the minutes, each century and additional day is added to
give February another year (the 30th).

I advance these facts to show how difficult it is to make
astronomical phenomena agree with our arbitrarily contrived
calendars. The Calendars and lunar and solar almanacs of ancient
cultures: Jewish, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Assyrian, Zoroastrian,
Chinese and Hindu show that those ancient races based their
astronomical calculations on OBSERVATIONS for a far greater
period of years than our modern astronomers have been able to

Shall we call It THE ABSOLUTE ? -- the ZERO concerning which no
qualities or attributes may be found or attached by our present
"earth-matter bound" minds ? And yet since it EXISTS even as our
mental concept, there is something there that RECORDS. Take
ourselves. If we agree to say that we have as supreme and
spiritual base the ALL-- the ABSOLUTE then such a record is
imprinted minute by minute. Our choices and decisions are always
compared to an ideal, of two directions: 1. that of SPIRITUAL
WISDOM and VIRTUE, or that of MATERIAL values rooted in IGNORANCE
ISOLATION. [ see S.D. II 567-569 ].

And yet, even our embodied-brain-minds (Lower Manas) have some of
the capacity to speculate about this ABSOLUTE, and its
universalities, timelessness and imponderability. Is it for this
reason that the ancient Sage said: "The ONE CONSCIOUSNESS
pierces up and down through all the states or planes of Being,
and serves to uphold the memory--whether complete or
incomplete--of each state's experiences." [ Gita Notes, by
W.Q.J.,. p. 98 ] And, as see it, the "consciousness" is for us
the "Mind." We have to determine what our motives are before
"creating" words and acts.


"COOPERATIVE RESISTANCE" if present would be the attitude
adopted by a thinking being which may (or may not fully ) have
realized its immortality as its own IDENTITY -- or, call it
Egoship, or "I-ness,": --

Is it not the MONAD in each of us (Atma-Buddhi -- the eternal
spirit/matter) that recognizes its endurance throughout eternity?
Is it not Manas-Mind which is the perceiving agent and sees both
sides of the potential future, depending on the motive employed
when actions or words are "created?" Is not the MIND that
faculty which is independent of both SPIRIT and MATTER so as to
PERCEIVE them both?" And, where does that
independence/dependence (a paradox) arise ? ( S.D. II 567 )

Is this not the basis for FREE-WILL, while living in an
environment, which on all planes of Being, is permeated with
KARMA -- the One LAW?

Is it not that it recognizes intuitively that for a successful
existence it has to voluntarily establish for itself the desire
to be harmonious with all other MONADS, which like it, are
themselves immortal and individual aspects of the ABSOLUTENESS in

And when can there be a TOTAL PRALAYA or MAHA-PRALAYA ? Pralaya
and maha-pralaya are set up as contrasting concepts to manvantara
and maha-manvantara. But we, the eternal Pilgrims live in and
through both these vast periods of time without losing our
SPIRITUAL IDENTITY. In the ABSOLUTENESS there is never a "time"
when there is absolute total Pralaya or Manvantara -- those are
limited in time and in space, hence, are they not always local
divisions of the ABSOLUTE?

Apparently we loose the identity represented by the present
PERSONALITY when at the end of this life it "dies" and the
skandhas (little-lives that carry an impress-memory of our
personality and its Karma) are dispersed throughout Nature while
our Individuality undergoes the Devachanic meditation process.

Does not KARMIC LAW now act to draw the Devachanic entity back
into incarnation, so that the Pilgrim, now made whole again (as a
spirit/matter Monadic complex to which are added many of the past
skandhas) may continue its existence as a willing servant to the
needs of the Karma-of-the-Whole? So that the disturbances (or
Karma -- good and bad) it left unsettled from past lives may now
be readjusted?

Is it not the Lower Mind (Kama-Manas) that thinks it is an
immortal entity? Where would such a notion arise? Is it because
of the link (sutratma) between it and the Buddhi-Manas ? Can the
illusion (Maya) of SELF be dual:

1. that of the Lower-self which knows it is determined by death
of the present personality -- and moved by pride, desires to
leave an impression in the minds of men? And who keeps a record
of such?

2.	that of the Buddhi-Manas which knows it is immortal and linked
to Atma, yet desires to leave an impression of virtue and ideal
living, so that mankind hearing or reading of its work realise
that there is a "Path" which leads to true permanency in Virtue
and Idealism -- and these are the root of all existence
everywhere ?

>From this effort arises the stories of Sages, Prophets, Mystics,
Wise-Men, Adepts, Great Souls, Java-Alhim, Mahatmas,
Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Arhats, Avatars, Dhyanis, Chohans,
Maha-Chohans Planetary Spirits, "Builders," Cosmocratores,
etc..., and from these serious Men who have "ACHIEVED" is derived
the concept of the "White Lodge" and its perpetual work of
assistance and enlightenment. [ see S.D. I 207-210, 570 - 575;
ISIS II 98-105 ]

Best wishes,



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Merriott []
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: [bn-sd] Gene's questions and the latest study passages

Gene (and all),

Its unlikely I will have time over the next one and a half days
to answer
your good and pertinent questions below and in your other post.
But I will
do so after then. I like your notion of "cooperative
resistance"... very

In the meantime if other people have any thoughts to share on
questions, other posts, or indeed any comments on our two study
(Nos 3 & 4) they would be very welcome.

Apart from Jerome's post on Maya, no one has sougt to address
that question
yet. Any other comments from anyone? Here is that particular

"(4.) The Universe is called, with everything in it, MAYA,
because all is
temporary therein, from the ephemeral life of a fire-fly to that
of the Sun.
Compared to the eternal immutability of the ONE, and the
changelessness of
that Principle, the Universe, with its evanescent ever-changing
forms, must
be necessarily, in the mind of a philosopher, no better than a
will-o'-the-wisp. Yet, the Universe is real enough to the
conscious beings
in it, which are as unreal as it is itself."
(SD I 273-274)

and here is a qoute from the passage Jerome offered us from HPB:

"Maya is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers
itself a Unit
separate from, and independent of, the One infinite and eternal
SAT, or

So what is that saying about the perceptive change that may arise
along with
a consideration of, and action based upon... UNITY?



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Carpenter []
> Sent: 29 January 2001 19:40
> >
> >
> > At first this 'plane' (Buddhi) is undifferentiated substance
yet tends
> more
> > and more towards differentiation as the Monad (Atma-Buddhi),
> 'Pilgrim',
> > 'progresses' through the kingdoms of nature up to man.
Imperceptible at
> > first, this differentiation becomes more pronounced at the
> human stage. >

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