Theos-Talk Archives (December 2000 Message tt00002)

A few weeks ago Daniel wrote asking if I was as skeptical about 
the claims of Yogananda about Babaji as I was about the 
theosophical Mahatmas. 

Daniel wrote:

"For example, Aurobindo claimed he "saw" Koot Hoomi. 
Yogananda claimed 
> to be in contact with Babaji who appears as elusive as the 
> theosophical Masters. Are you equally skeptical of their 
claims?
> Or what about Sai Baba and his paranormal claims? Do you 
also apply 
> the HEARSAY skeptical argument to those claims?"


I wrote that I was just as skeptical...In Donald Walter's (Swami 
Kriyananda) wrote in his book "The Path" Chapter 20 that his 
Guru, Swami Yogananda said:

"Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, and Sri Yukteswar," he announced, 
"were the three wise men who came to visit the Christ child in 
the manger. When Jesus was a grown man he returned their 
visit. The account of his trip to India was removed from the New 
Testament centuries later by sectarian followers, who feared its 
inclusion might lessen his stature in the eyes of the world."

People can believe everything that Yogananda said, that's their 
affair, but such claims that Babaji was an incarnation of one of 
the three wise men along with the other personages such aas 
Lahiri Mahasaya and Sri Yukteswar stretch credulity to the "nth 
degree"... yes I am skeptical about these claims. 

Elsewhere Yogananda has Babaji as the Guru of Sri 
Shankaracharya and he says Christ is basically concerned with 
developments in the West while Babaji is involved with the 
Eastern parts of the Globe.

Babaji is a good parallel I think as Daniel mentioned to such 
beings as Kuthoomi and company, although he doesn't send 
mysterious letters in desks or such...

The problem with the claims for these type of personages and 
here I am speaking about Sai Baba who I referred to earlier as 
well as "Babaji" is that they arrogate to themselves such powers 
or people think of them with such powers that they lose all sense 
of proportion. 

Sai Baba apparently uses his power and position to exploit 
people if we are to believe the reports of several former Sai Baba 
devotees.

When the claim is made that Babaji is an Avatar like Krishna, 
Christ, etc. and was also one of the three Wiseman, it casts a 
shadow on credulity and similar to the beliefs about the Masters 
in early Theosophical history puts the whole movement into 
disrepute with scholars and other sincere seekers.

The movements founded by Sai Baba and Swami Yogananda 
have done some good things, but we need to be aware as 
theosophists that there are claims made which should be 
scrutinized rather carefully and rejected.

Years ago, some friends of mine were attracted to the teachings 
of Yogananda and profited from them. They paid for weekly 
lessons to be sent to them to help them along in their spiritual 
path. I became skeptical about paying SRF (Self realization 
fellowship-Sami Yogananda's organization) for spiritual truth and 
later was fortunately drawn to the Ramakrishna Order which 
represented to me a more authentic represenattion of Hinduism 
as well as spirituality. The Ramakrishna Mission has no secret 
lessons that are sold to seekers. Everything is rather open for 
search and inquiry and has been for over a hundred years.

- Arthur Gregory





--- In theos-talk@egroups.com, "Blavatsky Archives " <info@b...> 
wrote:
> 
> Art,
> 
> I will briefly reply to your latest email addressed to Peter.
> 
> You write to Peter:
> 
> > I respectfully disagree with you regarding the existence of the 
> > "Mahatmas" and suggest as I have that they are figures 
largely 
> > influenced by the spiritualist movement and are lacking in 
> > credibility.
> 
> Art, you certainly have every right to disagree with Peter and to 
> believe as you see fit. I think that is one thing that all of us 
> will agree on. 
> 
> But having said that, let me turn my attention to a few of your 
> statements that deal with the Masters of HPB.
> 
> For example, you say the Mahatmas are figures that lack 
"credibility" 
> but exactly what you mean by that term is unclear to me. I can 
try 
> to guess what you might mean by that but it is fairly 
> imcomprehensible as to what you really mean. 
> 
> I assume also that you have no desire to give us any details 
which 
> would make your position understandable.
> 
> Again, you seem quite reluctant to actually deal with the 
eyewitness 
> accounts of the Theosophical witnesses. You are short on any 
> specifics and instead make generalizations such as:
> 
> > All that's been presented as to the existence of these 
> > :mahatmas" is hearsay and that by those who were rather 
> > believers themselves, so one would have to ask for an 
impartial 
> > witness or observer who would not be partial to the "proof'"...
> 
> Hearsay??? I have no clear understanding or idea of what you 
really 
> mean by this. 
> 
> But are you also EQUALLY sceptical of ALL other witnesses 
who claim 
> to have observed or experienced psychic and/or spirtual 
> manifestations/experiences? There are many materialistic 
minded 
> skeptics of the paranormal and the spiritual who use your 
SAME 
> argument of HEARSAY to pooh-pooh the reality of any thing 
beyond the 
> physical. In other words, do you use your HEARSAY argument 
just on 
> the theosophical witnesses or do you apply it to all witnesses 
of 
> similar happenings?
> 
> For example, Aurobindo claimed he "saw" Koot Hoomi. 
Yogananda claimed 
> to be in contact with Babaji who appears as elusive as the 
> theosophical Masters. Are you equally skeptical of their 
claims?
> Or what about Sai Baba and his paranormal claims? Do you 
also apply 
> the HEARSAY skeptical argument to those claims?
> 
> Art, believe or disbelieve as you see fit. But if you want to 
> communicate your views about HPB's Masters and feel that 
thoughtful 
> students of Theosophy might benefit from your views, you will 
have to 
> present more detailed explanations if you want us to 
understand your 
> position and the reasons why you have adopted that stance. 
> 
> The devil is in the details.
> 
> Daniel