Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00238)

Thanks again Daniel,

I can see you're not too busy today being Thanksgiving. I 
appreciate you culling my statements together as they do 
represent my opinion. 

I doubt very much there would be such a reaction to my letters 
unless people felt strongly about this and had their own doubts 
about it.

The reports of seeing Kuthumi in Lahore and Jammu i have 
seen before. They are not from unbiased sources as you know. 
Henry S. Olcott was with Madame Blavatskaya early on attending 
seances and "investigating" same for quite some time before 
this report, so to me it's a little tainted.

I think we should rather focus on the very legitimate work that 
Henry S. Olcott did in Ceylon with the Buddhist community there.

I appreciate your gracious offer to write for the Archives and we'll 
have to see if time allows for it. I must admit this is not really a 
priority for me as I have other work to do, but thanks for the kind 
offer anyway and have a great holiday!!

- Art



--- In theos-talk@egroups.com, "Blavatsky Archives " <info@b...> 
wrote:
> 
> SUBJECT: HPB's Masters....quasi spirit guides...this 
> imposter...literary devices
> 
> Art, I have gone through alot of your recent emails and have 
culled 
> together at the end of this posting some of your various 
statements 
> in which your express your opinion about HPB's Masters. I 
must agree 
> with Peter Merritt that you give few if any specifics. You use 
> strong words but back them up with no evidence. 
> 
> You may be on to something but your readers have no easy 
way to know 
> if your thoughts on this subject are valid or not because you 
supply 
> your readers with little to go on.
> 
> If you really feel strong on this subject as indicated by some of 
> your words quoted below, then I invite you to write an article or 
> essay on this subject and I will post it at Blavatsky Archives. 
The 
> archives has an international readership and I think interested 
> persons will find your thoughts most interesting. All I ask of 
you 
> is that you flesh out your thoughts and provide your readers 
with 
> some evidence and details --- not just generalizations.
> 
> You call HPB's Masters "literary devices" and "this imposter" 
but 
> fail to explain, for example, these two experiences of William 
Brown 
> and Henry Olcott:
> 
> (1) "The place to which our narrative really next pertains is the 
> city of Lahore. Here, as elsewhere, Colonel Olcott delivered 
stirring 
> addresses to large audiences; but Lahore has a special 
interest, 
> because there we saw, in his own physical body, Mahatma 
Koot Hoomi 
> himself."
> 
> "On the afternoon of the 19th November, I saw the Master in 
broad 
> daylight, and recognized him. . . . At Jammu I had another 
> opportunity of seeing Mahatma Koot Hoomi in propria persona. 
One 
> evening I went to the end of the "compound" (private 
enclosure), and 
> there I found the Master awaiting my approach. I saluted in 
European 
> fashion, and came, hat in hand, to within a few yards of the 
place on 
> which he was standing. After a minute or so he marched away, 
the 
> noise of his footsteps on the gravel being markedly audible." 
W.T. 
> Brown
> 
> (2) "One day at Bombay I was at work in my office when a 
Hindu 
> servant came and told me that a gentleman wanted to see me 
in Madame 
> Blavatsky's bungalow --- a separate house within the same
> enclosure 
> as the main building. This was one day in 1879. I went and 
found 
> alone there my Teacher[Master Morya]. Madame Blavatsky was 
then 
> engaged in animated conversation with other persons in the 
other 
> bungalow. The interview between the Teacher and myself 
lasted 
> perhaps 10 minutes, and it related to matters of a private 
nature 
> with respect to myself and certain current events in the history 
of 
> the Society. . . . He put his hand upon my head, and his hand 
was 
> perfectly substantial; and he had altogether the appearance of 
an 
> ordinary living person. When he walked about the floor there 
was 
> noise of his footsteps. . . . He was then stopping at a 
bungalow, not 
> far from Bombay, belonging to a person connected with this 
> brotherhood of the Mahatmas, and used by Mahatmas who 
may be passing 
> through Bombay on business connected with their order. He 
came to 
> our place on horseback. . . . I have seen him at other times 
[also in 
> the flesh]. . . . [His appearance on all those occasions has 
been] as 
> unmistakable as the appearance of either of you gentlemen [of 
the SPR 
> sitting here and asking me questions]. . . ." 
> 
> It is hard to believe that these Masters are merely "literary 
> devices" of HPB's especially in light of the experiences like the 
two 
> above. 
> 
> I hope you will take up my invitation and write such an article 
and 
> let me publish it at Blavatsky Archives.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> Art Gregory on HPB's Masters (compiled from various emails 
posted on 
> Theos-talk) 
> 
> --------------
> To me the Mahatmas of the early 
> theosophic movement are very close to spirit guides in the 
> Spiritualist movement and that's just the way I see it. many of 
the 
> early theosophists were spiritualists and frequented seances 
> and this tinged the Mahatma concept with a kind of flavor that to 
> me has thrown many of our most valuable contributions into 
> disrepute. I would urge the classical concept of Mahatma as a 
> great soul or Siddhi an accomplished, perfected being that is 
> understood in India/Tibet as opposed to the quasi spirit guides 
> of our theosophic antecedents in the TS.
> --------------
> There is to me a lot of deception apparent and shadowy 
doings 
> that I believe that afflicted the early Theosophic movement...A 
> kind of spiritualistic oneupmanship and battle for leadership 
and 
> authority... We may still be suffering the effects of it. 
> --------------
> What I understand is that the Masters as commonly 
understood 
> by Theosophists is a concept that was heavily influenced by 
the 
> spirit guides then used in the spiritualist movement... here I 
refer 
> to the mysterious letters that appear from the Mahatmas... 
> --------------
> The "Mahatma" idea is really i believe a synthesis between the 
> Rosicrucian concept of the invisible brotherhood and the 
> european ideas of what a Mahatma was then current in the 
early 
> twentieth century... These ideas are of historical interest only 
and 
> should be respected as such. I do feel strongly that to hold to 
the 
> existence of these shadowy beings is to bring a kind of 
disrepute 
> on us and the work of theosophy. 
> --------------
> What I mean to say is that spiritualism seems to have 
influenced 
> the manifestations of the "mahatmas" in question, such as the 
> mysterious letters that appear from the air. 
> --------------
> I respectfully disagree with you regarding the existence of the 
> "Mahatmas" and suggest as I have that they are figures largely 
> influenced by the spiritualist movement and are lacking in 
> credibility.
> --------------
> This is why I feel we're really bringing a kind of disrepute on 
> ourselves by continuing this imposter. The rest of the world is 
> not so naive as to enlist under this soiled banner. I'm sorry I 
> must beso blunt with you,but it is sadly the case...
> --------------
> Her own genius is to be appreciated aside from the "masters" 
to 
> whom she attributed so much. I also suspect that the 
"masters" 
> were a literary device on her part and another expression of her 
> resourcefulness and genius, if you will.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> Daniel H. Caldwell
> info@b...
> BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com
> http://blavatsky.cc
> http://theosophyonthe.net
> 
> You can always access our site by
> simply typing into the URL address
> bar the following 6 characters:
> 
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> ---------------------------------------