Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00173)

Art,

> I think you are as free to embrace your Mahatmas as I am to
> reject them.

As far as I know we all agree with you on this. We are each free to believe
as we wish. But our freedom to 'accept' or 'reject' is not the issue here.
The motto of the TS states, "There is no religion higher than truth", and
not "There is no truth higher than what we want to believe."

When you write into these Theosophical forums saying you urge people to
reject HPB's teachers as nothing more than the spooks from spiritualism;
when you say they are not real Mahatmas and nothing they have written
measures up to what a real Mahatma would write; when you accuse them of
being snide-ish and causing divisions between people... then I think it is
only reasonable to expect that your fellow theosophists will ask you to
offer something to substantiate those views. After all, it is the Mahatmas
who were the real founders and inspiration of the original TS.

But so far you have not offered one single thing to substantiate any of the
above.

Apparently HPB's teachers are all that you describe because... well, simply
because you say they are.

All the evidence to the contrary counts for nothing because... well, simply
because you say it doesn't.

You appear to have side-stepped answering any of the issues, questions, and
testimony put to you by members of this group *in response* to what you have
said above. Please note the latter. It was you who raised this issue of
the reality of the Mahatmas existence. There was no sign on the door.

In addition...

For some time now you have tried to present students of HPB and the Mahatmas
as stuck in the past. Yet you extoll the virtues of studying what you call
"real Mahatmas" like:

> "Ramakrishna, Ramana and Aurobindo [who] were physically
> incarnated for people to have Darshan with them and today we
> are fortunate to have access to writings and impressions of
> people who met them. In this way we as beings can weigh their
> words and accept or reject their words and apply them or not to
> our own lives and spiritual search.

I like to study these too, along with many others, and as pointed out to
you, what you have written about them could equally be said of HPB and the
Mahatmas. But Art, you need to know that all of these Yogis you mention are
dead, at least physically, and have been for some time. The idea that
weighing up their words of yester-year means one is in the present while
weighing up the teachings of HPB and the Mahatmas means that one is somehow
stuck in the past makes no sense.

Some months ago, in this group, you were advocating that the TS drop the
writings and teachings of HPB and the Mahatmas as outdated and no longer
relevant to Theosophy. Your idea of what counted as relevant for 'today'
was a group you ran for 18 months studying "Jesus, Sun of God,".

You also say you love "Viveka-Chudamani". Yes, I do too, and Atma-Bodhi,
and to hear someone comment on these who really knows his/her Vedanta is a
wonderful thing.

But Art, Jesus lived 2000 years ago and "Viveka-Chudamani", "The Crest Jewel
of Wisdom", by Sankaracharya was written around 1200 years ago. So once
again, to say that studying HPB and the writings of the Mahatmas is to be
stuck in the past, yet to study 'Jesus' and the works of Sankaracharya is to
be living in the present, has no real basis.

Your latest advice to Nick is that he and others should move on from the
perspectives offered by HPB and the Mahatmas a few generations ago. You
write to do so "means breaking the old patterns and trying new ones." And
what are these new patterns you think Nick should try? One such *new*
pattern is to listen to Monks teaching doctrines promulgated by the Buddha
2500 years ago!! Yes, that sounds really "new". Also, did it ever occur to
you that you might be telling this to someone who has been a genuine lover
of Buddhism for many years?

Art, I don't believe there are members in this group who have any interest
at all in converting you into a belief in the Mahatmas. Nor has anyone
who has written here shown they regard a belief in their existence as an
entry qaulification to the study of Theosophy. I certainly don't, but
neither will I stand by while you 'rubbish' them.

Conversely, you HAVE shown an interest in persuading people away from HPB
and her Teachers.

My own personal view is that it matters not whether a 'teaching' is 100
years old or 100,000 years old. It is our own individual application to
'the work' that either brings the underlying truth 'alive' in this present
moment or leaves it like a dead letter of the past. I maintain this is true
whether we call ourselves Buddhists, Hindus, Theosophists or by any other
label and whether we have gurus or not. Thus, what matters most of all is
that we get on with the genuine study and apply ourselves to the path.


...Peter