Theos-Talk Archives (June 2000 Message tt00187)

In a message dated 06/08/00 2:34:25 AM, benge@adsnet.com writes:

>Hello,
>
>> That's true... But, since when was the Christian theology and belief system
>> (which incidentally, denies karma and reincarnation -- which the Jews 
don't)
>> the "reality" of the Jewish religion?
>
>Karma is simply "Be not deceived, God is not mocked.  Whatever ye sow, so
>surely shall ye reap".  Reincarnation doesn't need anyone to believe it.  It
>either is, or isn't, but it doesn't change this life in anyway, except to
>possibly promise Justice.  The concept of reincarnation is comforting
>because it promises justice.  For me, I have no knowledge of a past life
>or future life.  All I have is now.

Then why don't you use it effectively and through your own self devised and 
self determined efforts, try to determine the basis and prove, for yourself, 
either the truth or untruth of the reality of reincarnation.  Then we can 
talk about it reasonably.  But, not, if we just hypocritically accept it, 
while believing in a mostly contradictory religion, just because we like the 
idea of justice.  There is a scientific reason why that justice is built into 
the foundation of the universe and why universal brotherhood (not brotherhood 
among selected groupings) is a law of nature, that can only be expressed by 
understanding reincarnation, karma and the apparent separation between spirit 
and matter, along with the idea of an eternal Spiritual consciousness that is 
totally responsible for its own choices of action.  

This completely negates the Christian idea of a personal God or "savior" who 
is the Supreme Dictator, and who, as a "personality" can take vengeance and 
make judgments that can send us off after only one life on Earth to the 
permanent fires of Hell or the pleasures of Heaven.  How can you reconcile 
that with the Truths of theosophy?  Or, with the idea that real "Justice" can 
only come about through the action of karma over many lifetimes?  Or with 
that of Jesus, himself, who spoke only of the principles behind his own 
religion? Which is, pure Hebrew Kabbala, and which was and is still is in 
perfect agreement with theosophical principles -- including the idea of an 
unknown Deific Principle (Ein-Soph or "No Thing") THAT has no conscious or 
personal relationship to the manifest universe, or its individual beings, 
except through the veil of its first emanation, Kether, or Mulaprakriti -- 
who is, in turn, followed by and dependent upon its further emanations into 
the nine intelligent "powers" or "builders" of Nature -- which, themselves, 
cannot act other than in conformance with the laws of karma.  

Unfortunately, there can be some bad apples in every bushel (even throughout 
the so called "hierarchy") who like to control everything for themselves.  It 
may be that one of their next lower "emanaters" pictured himself as a 
"Personal God" and twisted Christianity -- when he had the opportunity in his 
role of "Satan" -- into a contrived "religion" justifying his dictatorship 
over the lives of all its followers while, hypocritically, using a wise Hebrew
 figurehead along with his valid "Heart Doctrine" teachings as a "Front" for 
its totally fallacious separatist theology and false dogmas.  

If their original figurehead, Jesus (if he ever actually existed as they 
picture him) were alive anytime from after the third century until today, he 
would have denounced them all as scoundrels, usurpers and deniers of the true 
Wisdom Religion and its "Masters" (whether these Masters were Hindu/Buddhist, 
Hebrew/Kabbalist, Muslim/Sufi, Taoist, or other similar esoteric religions). 
Vide, the concocted story of the three Magi, the Star of Bethlehem, that 
attempts to prove that the coming of Jesus was sanctified by all the other 
great religions of the world, Mazdaism, Buddhism and Taoism. Unfortunately, 
history proves that they all had their own great teachers who each brought 
the identical theosophical teachings to their own peoples, as the Rebbe 
Yeshua did to his.

BTW, "As they sow, so shall they reap" was spoken by John (as a parable for 
karma) who was more of a philosopher at the time he said it than a 
Christian... As we know them, after they formed a "Mother Church" (which he 
identified as "The Whore of Babylon in Revelations) around Jesus as a 
figurehead and "idol," along with the "Virgin Mary" as part of a so called 
"Holy Trinity of "Father, Son and Holy Ghost... A dogma, that, 
anthropomorphizes, materializes, and in a sense, trivializes -- as well as 
prevents the learning, by those trapped in Christian theology, of what is 
essentially an esoteric reality of great significance to ones understanding 
of the laws of karma, the meaning of "eternal life," the inevitability and 
essentiality of reincarnation, etc.  And, also prevents the recognition of 
the fallacies of Christian fundamentalist dogmas of a personal God, 
resurrection, Heaven, Hell, Satan, creationism, vicarious atonement, Papal 
infallibility, denial of theosophical scientific evolution, etc., etc.  

Isn't it far better to practice Universal Brotherhood because we understand 
the unity of all, and have compassion and empathy for all beings, than to do 
it because someone tells us to, or threatens us with fire and brimstone if we 
don't?
>
>The reality of the Jewish religion was not to reserve one day, the Sabbath,
>for God.  Each day we live like any other.  The Sabbath was sort of a
>minimum.  The sacrifices were supposed to be something given freely to God
>that a person values, rather than a minimum payment.  God the Father was
>supposed to be "Daddy" -- personal.  We are supposed to immerse ourself
>in the way of life God wants, happily.  God gave the Jews a set of minimums
>that they cast in concrete.

Those incoherent remarks, based on the dogma of an anthropomorphized, 
separate and personal "God," are totally without any foundation in either 
reason, intuition or reality.  There is no "wanting" on the part of the 
actual, impersonal "Godhead" (Ein Soph, or no "thing") -- which, based on 
Hebrew Cabalistic truths, are identical to the original teachings of the 
Rebbe Yeshua (whom the Christians call Jesus)... And which has no 
relationship, whatsoever, to the dogmas and edicts taught throughout all of 
Christianity today -- except for some enlightened Christian mystics, Jews for 
Jesus, etc., who understand and accept theosophical principles, while 
practicing the original Heart Doctrine of the one who had the wisdom of the 
Christos that all his Hebrew Essene, Buddhist, Taoist, etc., 'brother" 
rabbis, gurus, teachers, etc. had.  

One can accept Jesus as a guide and teacher, realize his as well as one's own 
connection to the Godhead or divine source, and even call oneself a 
Christian, without having to accept any dogmas of the Christian Church or 
their interpretations of the Bible -- as there are many descendants of the 
Hebrews who call themselves, Jews, and respect the same Godhead, who also do 
not practice any of the Dogmas of the organized Judaism that grew out of its 
original Cabalistic teachings (that are, incidentally, identical to 
theosophy).

It's unfortunate that Yeshua could not give out his "pearls" of esoteric 
wisdom at that time, and that it took 2000 years before it was possible to do 
so (by the Mahatmas, with the help of HPB).  Perhaps, that recent "exposure" 
of the Christian priest's crafty motives, the falsity of their personal God 
and their dogmas, and the misuse of Christianity by Hitler and their 
pandering to it, is the reason why the Christian leaders, today, are so 
careful to bend over backwards in "public" support of the Jews, and Israel, 
no matter what their politics.  But, It could be that many of them still may 
privately condone the distribution of the completely spurious "Protocols of 
Zion" and stay very quiet or deny any connection when Christian dominated 
KKK's, skin heads, white supremacists, and other separatist and violent hate 
groups use the Christian Bible to justify their ideas and actions. 

> > I thought that both Buddha and Jesus > (a/k/a the Rebbe, Joshua) spoke
> > out solely to reform their respective  religions by taking away the power 
of 
>> their self serving priestcrafty rulers... 
>> Joshua, to end the exploitation power of the Rabbi's materialism
>> and greed, and Guatama, to end the Hindu caste system for similar reasons.
>
>For sure, Jesus did that.
>
>> So, would you kindly explain what "God" you are talking about?
>
>To me, God is universal Higher Power in charge of humanity that various
>people have called Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, etc.

Naming it is not explaining it.  Nevertheless, you are perfectly entitled to 
choose anyone or thing that you believe "is in charge of humanity" -- 
especially, if you ignorantly fall for the fear of the threatened retribution 
that may follow if you don't, or the promised paradise if you do.  But, the 
only ONE really "in charge of humanity" is the Self within each of us -- that 
we either realize for ourselves, understand the basic karmic laws that govern 
its being, and follow its edicts based on the knowledge, intuition and wisdom 
gained through our own self devised and self determined efforts... Or, we can 
blindly follow the leader's of dogmatic religions who profess to be spokesmen 
for their imaginary "God" -- whose dictatorship (as well as their own) they 
wish to impose on everyone by inculcating a "blind belief" or "faith" in a 
nonexistent God and a false interpretation of theosophical truths -- with 
just enough similarity to our inborn intuitive knowledge to be believable, so 
long as we don't use out reason to examine its inconsistencies.  

Hitler, black magician that he was, used the same tactics and converted most 
of the German (Christian) people whom he knew were well prepared to believe 
any mystical hogwash -- so long as it had sufficient christianized 
"authority" (no matter how fallacious or distorted) behind it.  Not only did 
he claim to have brought a "new dispensation," but he even warned us in his 
Mein Kampf, that he intended to anchor his National Socialism (Nazi party) on 
the gullibility of most Christians to believe anything told them about the 
Jews that denies their "chosen people" status and paints them as "communist" 
enemies of the state... And, therefore, would not defend them when he used 
Jews as scapegoats and slave labor, while he secretly exterminated all their 
Rabbis and knowledgeable intellectuals (including all theosophists, BTW) who 
knew the fundamental truths and could, ultimately, expose his nefarious 
scheme.  Of course, we can believe that he was crazy... But, the 
predominantly Christian (mostly Protestant) Germans, nevertheless, fell for 
all of his falsities (that were no more far fetched than their own Biblical 
misinterpretations and dogmas).  This explains the Power that "blind belief" 
and faith in "authorities" gives to those intending to enslave others 
(physically, economically, mentally and/or spiritually) to serve their own 
selfish purposes, or their misdirected and sometimes (they think) "good 
intentions"... For which, as said, "Hell is paved with..."
>
>>  Also, tell us
>> if you are parroting the "new dispensation" of Maitreya, or if all that
>> prophesying is solely your own opinions and beliefs?
>
>All I have -- is solely my own opinions and beliefs.  Only.  

Based on what? The Christian dogmas? Hearsay? Nothing?  It certainly doesn't 
appear (judging from what you say) to have any reasonable basis of wisdom or 
synthesized knowledge of universal (scientific, philosophical, or religious) 
realities, behind it. 

If it's just your groundless and "blind belief" opinions, on the other hand, 
then why work so hard to convince us that there is some kind of "new 
dispensation" (based on nothing more than "hearsay") behind that?  And why 
harangue us to believe your personally accepted "authority" whose ideas and 
opinions also, apparently, are wobbling between fundamental principles of 
theosophy and mostly contradictory Christian theology.  This seems to be the 
typical hypocritical stand of those who try to influence others by trying to 
keep their feet in more than one camp at a time. Hitler and his crowd did 
just that. They pandered to Christian theology, and gave themselves the 
credentials to bring down a "new dispensation."  So, did most Christian 
missionaries, as they tailored their dogmas to fit in with the local pagan 
religions or voodoo's.  God save us from such wonderful "saviors" who give us 
a personal God based on such flexible reasoning and contrived mores, that it 
can condone almost anything. 

Admittedly, Brotherhood, universal or not, as well as selected moral and 
ethical precepts are grounds to compare one religion with another, but what's 
so new about Maitreya's dispensation?  All he appears to be doing is 
Christianizing theosophy along the same line of Besant, Leadbeater and 
Bailey,  The only difference, is that behind him stand some possibly shady 
characters who may be using him as a tool to put their own ruling cabals into 
power -- as the Christians have done for ages since the Holy Roman Empire -- 
by infiltrating governments (or talking their kings into conquering them in 
the name of their God) and then setting themselves up as the only politically 
correct religion ... And, thereby, influencing, and sometimes controlling, 
the laws that fit their narrow sectarian views and fills the coffers of their 
priestcrafty leaders. 

Of course there are many Christians, especially among some of the Protestant 
sects (although still easy to influence into voting as a block using 
Christian precepts and priestly authorities, along with twisted 
interpretations of the Bible) who do not fit this mode or condone the actions 
of "The Mother Church" and its army of Jesuit "enforcers" of the self 
serving, so called "Laws of (a) God," stolen from the Jews -- that they 
cleverly and intentionally fabricated, misinterpreted (and twisted all out of 
their reasonable understanding) to suit their own purposes.  It's interesting 
that this threatened exposure of their criminality, apparently, is the major 
reason for the church sanctioned, false and unreasonable accusations, hatred 
and persecution of the Jews throughout Christian history that fell right into 
the hands of Hitler and his followers. 
>
>> So far, all we have heard seems to be nothing but "Big Talk"
>> without any substance or qualifications.  C'mon... Give us some real
>> ideas to discuss here, other than all this pointless and endless 
proselytizing
>> of yet another new Messiah,
>
>What would you like to talk about?

Reality. Truth.  Theosophy, and its synthesis of science, religion and 
philosophy, and its better understanding.  Take your pick.

But, my suggestion is that; if you wish to tout these "blind beliefs" of 
yours, and desire to proselytize the wonderful benefits of Christianity, 
while promoting a new "Messiah" along with his "New Dispensation" -- that you 
do it on other forums that attract, less discerning and more gullible 
correspondents than this one.  

Nevertheless, thanks for giving me the opportunity to put these ideas about 
theosophy, in contrast with organized religious brain washing, into proper 
perspective, and in wide circulation -- that theosophists might use to 
reinforce their own understandings and convictions, as well as in response to 
similar "public" distortions of truth and reality.  

LHM

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