Theos-Talk Archives (May 2000 Message tt00212)

Thank you for your appreciation of my scientifically oriented approach to 
exploring theosophical truths. It's main purpose is to counteract the 
misleading Christianized gobbledygook spewed out by some post HPB, 
pseudo-theosophical teachers.  

As for the "zero-ontological" ideas put forth by Pierce, I think he is 
barking up a tree... Mainly, since he fails to consider that the root of all 
substance is pure energy, and that pure energy is impressed in the void, or 
non-dimensional zero-point space, as abstract motion -- which can only be 
imagined as spin... That may be visualized as circular, but not as "zero," or 
empty of aspects or potentialities.  As I see it, the void (or so called, 
"emptiness") is both full (of energy) while empty (of substantiality) -- 
simultaneously... Therefore, since it exists eternally without change, it 
cannot be considered as simply a "canceling out of the positive and negative 
forces" that are expressed in the manifest universe.  This parrallels what  
HPB said, in answer to Nagarjuna's question, "Is IT one or many?" ... "It is 
neither one nor many, but both."  Or, why Buddha refused to answer when he 
was asked if there was an abiding Self.  The problem with such ontological 
theories of numbers is that they try to use materialistic conceptions to 
denote conditions whose fundamental causes are rooted in both emptiness and 
fullness, and far beyond the manifest planes or fields of phenomena. This is 
far more complex metaphysically than any scientist or mathematician can 
imagine or explain with numbers alone.  It's one of the reasons why 
reductive, empirical science, even as advanced as post-quantum Superstring 
and Membrane theories, still can't get a handle on the nature of 
consciousness, or the problem of how mind is linked to the brain. 

If the source of cosmic origin contains all potential space and energy, with 
its positive and negative forces in perfect balance, this cannot be a 
cessation of motion, per se -- which must continue to exist, even if 
abstractly, in the Absolute condition of pre cosmic space, as fundamental 
spin.  Therefore, while the primal source's phenomenal energy may appear to 
be zero from a material standpoint, its noumenal or potential energy, it must 
always remain infinite...  And. Therefore can never be zero in every sense.  
As Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita, "I establish this whole Universe from a 
single portion of myself, and remain separate (or undiminished)." This is the 
paradox of the eternality of the Kosmos vs. the intermittence of its manifest 
cosmic appearances, and also the paradox of the infiniteness of duration vs. 
the finiteness of time.  If there was such a thing as "zero" in the sense 
that nothing whatsoever can exist, noumenally or phenomenally, including 
abstract motion, there could be no universe, no karma, and none of us here to 
think or talk about it.  

So, how can there ever be a zero-point that is empty of everything, including 
spinergy, or memory, or the potentiality of becoming anything?  The concept 
of zero, then as describing an infinitesimal  condition of both fullness and 
emptiness is equivalent to the concept of infinity describing a condition of 
endless expansion and contraction -- neither of which can be conceived of by 
our finite minds. Therefore attributing to numbers (as convenient mental 
tools) anything more mystical than symbolizing and counting abstract or 
concrete entities, beings, things, etc., or measuring their dimensions, 
volumes, forces, motions, etc., is pointless, psuodo metaphysical 
speculation.  

Hope this clears things up a bit.

LHM

In a message dated 04/23/00 1:18:08 PM, ecarpent@co.la.ca.us writes:

>Wow!,
>
>Leon, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I see heaven in your 
thinking. 
>Sure.  It does blow me away, but I'll do the work to understand
>it as best I can.  What is beautiful is the connection between theosophical
>thought and conventional science if one can, ha, ha, ha, call Superstring
>Theory, "conventional."  I love it.  Please bear with my over-enthusiastic
>quality, I have a deficiency of access to theosophical science.  Thankyou.
>
>Please comment on David Pearce's Zero Ontology web page:
>http://www.hedweb.com/witherall/zero.htn
>
>I'll save your webpage addresses.
>
>Eugene
>
>I forward this to the Esoteric Science group list.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: LeonMaurer@aol.com <LeonMaurer@aol.com>
>
>To: basic@blavatsky.net <basic@blavatsky.net>; theos-talk@theosophy.com
>
><theos-talk@theosophy.com>
>
>Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 1:49 AM
>
>Subject: Theos-World Fundamental theosohical principles and their
>
>relationship toscience.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>In a message dated 04/19/00 1:37:32 AM, Shersy17@aol.com writes:
>
>>>
>
>>>In a message dated 4/17/00 8:42:58 PM, LeonMaurer@aol.com writes:
>
>>>
>
>>>> Without reference to the above mentioned historical review,
>
>>>>but with reference to modern and post modern science,
>
>>>>I hopefully await some intelligent discussions in these
>
>>>>theosophical forums related to the fundamental scientific
>
>>>>principles that underlies all evolution, as well as the scientific
>
>>>>relationships between spirit, mind and matter -- as presented
>
>>>>in the SD and other writings of HPB and her (pseudonymous or
>
>>>>not) Masters KH and M -- and supplemented by other
>
>>>>corroborative writings of William Q. Judge, under their direct
>
>>>>tutelage
>
>>>
>
>>>Dear Leon,
>
>>>Why dont you start the conversation.  What is the most
>
>>>basic fundamental principle that underlies all evolution?
>
>>
>
>>Okay.  Here is how I see it.
>
>>
>
>>The "most basic fundamental principle" is that there are actually three
>
>>fundamental principles that go hand in hand with each other, and act as
>
>one.
>
>>These are, (1) the principle of Absolute Origin (2) the principle of Law,
>
>and
>
>>(3) the principle and purpose of Evolution
>
>>
>
>>They are explained, from a "scientific" point of view (with reference
>to
>
>the
>
>>Proem of the Secret Doctrine), as:
>
>>(1); The origin of the Cosmos starting from a "sleeping" zero (laya) point
>
>of
>
>>infinite energy and infinite duration, in the form of absolute abstract
>
>>motion -- which has no physical dimensions or other conceivable attributes,
>
>>and potentially exists, in the "emptiness" of absolute abstract space
>as
>
>>fundamental "cyclic spin" around three primary axes on seven invisible
>and
>
>>intangible layers or "Robes" -- prior to its periodic "awakening" and
>
>>manifestation. This primal "spinergy" contains, in its holographic
>
>>interference patterns of endless and beginningless circular motion with
>
>>varying degrees of momentum, which, when manifest in lawful degrees or
>
>>"phases" of vibrational energies descending from infinite spirit to finite
>
>>matter, contains all the memories and acquired knowledge of the universe's
>
>>prior existences -- which are accessible to the individual "awareness"
>
>>inherent in the static zero-point itself -- and which, after emanation
>and
>
>>manifestation, is reflected everywhere.  Upon manifestation into the
>
>Cosmos,
>
>>this nonlinear circular motion transforms, after three major phases (logos)
>
>>emanating from each of its 3 spin axis, into a finite harmonic series
>of 7
>
>+
>
>>7 coenergetic (capable of transforming energy from one field to another)
>
>>vibrational fields, appearing as nonlinear "coadunate but not
>
>consubstantial"
>
>>bubbles within bubbles within bubbles, enclosed by continuous loops within
>
>>loops within loops of linear force (the basis of postmodern scientific
>
>>Superstring and M-brane theories), centered around their zero-points of
>
>>potential awareness or consciousness -- in accordance with the second
>
>>fundamental principle of;
>
>>(2) The immutable laws of cycles and periodicity -- based on initial
>
>circular
>
>>motion -- which is the fundamental governing cause of both karma
>
>>(action-inertia-reaction) and reincarnation (birth-death-rebirth) ...
>
>leading
>
>>to the final fundamental principle of;
>
>>(3) Evolution and involution ... Whereby spirit and its root of pure
>
>>consciousness on 7, 10 and 12 levels or "planes" or "coenergetic phases"
>of
>
>>action potential originating at the zero-point, involutionally transforms
>
>>into matter (with its myriad degrees of forms in 4 physical stages of
>
>>evolution from Mineral to Vegetable to Animal to Man) ... While matter,
>
>>informed by spirit and its associated universal consciousness, and governed
>
>>by fundamental cyclic Law, evolutionally transforms back to spirit and
>pure
>
>>consciousness at the end of each wakeful phase of manifest existence 
>This
>
>>process is endless and beginningless and is repeated through varying
>
>periods
>
>>of finite time in each subsequent descending and ascending sub cycle of
>
>>universal evolution –- with all zero-points of consciousness gaining
>
>>appropriate degrees of experience along the way -- subject to their
>
>>individual karma.  ("As above, so below" -- according to the ancient occult
>
>>catechism attributed to Hermes.)  The third principle also states, from
>a
>
>>theosophical standpoint, that the purpose of this evolutionary process
>is
>
>for
>
>>the "experience of the soul." All this is quite clearly elaborated on
>from
>
>a
>
>>theosophical standpoint in the Proem of the Secret Doctrine, as well as
>in
>
>>the Ocean of Theosophy.
>
>>
>
>>For a simplified symbolic diagrammatic look at how these ascending and
>
>>descending fields of force evolve prior to their breaking of symmetry
> (due
>
>>to the particularized holographic memories, images and inherent knowledge
>
>>associated with each field's and subfield's coincident zero-points and
>
>their
>
>>resonant interferences with the memories and their volitional actions,
>or
>
>>karma, in adjoining fields) -- along with their theosophical and scientific
>
>>correlations, see my web sites at:
>
>>http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html
>
>>http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/evolution2.html
>
>>
>
>>For a further discussion of how these principles underlie our human
>
>>consciousness and perception, see my web site at:
>
>>http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/
>
>>
>
>>I hope this is a satisfactory start, and would be pleased to answer any
>
>>questions, and consider any suggestions or comments related to correlations
>
>>between theosophical principles and all disciplines of current science
>--
>
>>which, as HPB predicted is now approaching the fundamental truths of
>
>>theosophy, through the interdisciplinary field of "consciousness studies,"
>
>.
>
>>
>
>>Respectfully,
>
>>
>
>>Leon
>
>>leonmaurer@aol.com
>
>>http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/LHM.index.html
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
>
>>
>
>>Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
>
>>teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
>
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>
>>

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