Theos-Talk Archives (May 2000 Message tt00091)

If I may put my two cents worth in here... (The dialogue between Daniel and 
Dallas)

I would like to say that, without the "conceptual system of cosmo- and 
anthropo-genesis --  that HPB so carefully explained in the Secret Doctrine 
was the necessary foundation for theosophists to "prove" logically and 
conceptively to themselves as well as to the "common man" that Brotherhood IS 
a "Law of Nature" -- transformation, alone, would be useless in forwarding 
the aims, purposes, and work of the Theosophical Movement ... i.e., To form 
the nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of *Humanity* (my italics); To study 
the ancient and modern sciences, religions and philosophies, and; To 
investigate the psychical powers latent in man... So as, "...through a truer 
realization of the Self, to be better able to help and teach others."  Also, 
HPB certainly knew that a "realization of the Self" was essentially a 
"transformation," and one of the necessary correlatives to become a true 
theosophist... Accordingly, she gave us the *Voice of the Silence* as a 
*simultaneous* study and practice in order to (help) reach that condition.  

The problem with most organized religions, as well as many "spiritual" 
teachers, and their so called, transformational or meditative practices, is 
that they lack this scientific and philosophical understanding of the 
fundamental metaphysical *truths* that would enable them to "convert" the 
minds of dyed-in-the-wool, logical materialists who constitute the majority 
of our presently destructive and oppressive world  scientific, political, 
social, educational, and economic order.  To arrive at such a "mind" change 
is one valid meaning of the words, "Theosophy is as Theosophy does." ...And, 
*doing*, requires analytical and conceptional Knowledge, as well as Wisdom 
(that comes from "transformation" or "realization of the Self").  Or, in 
other words... Without the application of conceptual knowledge (of 
metaphysical truths, in particular), wisdom can only, selfishly, help the one 
who attains it. Therefore, it should be clear that enlightenment or 
transformation, by itself, is NOT the aims and purposes of HPB's and the 
Masters' theosophical teachings, nor that of the Theosophical Movement 
reintroduced in the 19th century...  Nor, was it the purpose of the 
forerunner Adept "Founders" who worked for "the Rights of Man" during the 
preceding 18th Century.

Scholarly research is all well and good, but, methinks, it very often misses 
the essence of the preconceived things it investigates or attempts to prove.  
Vide the millions upon millions of words and references offered by scholarly 
scientists, in the last 5 years alone, vainly attempting to prove their 
preconceived notion that consciousness and awareness are epiphenomena of the 
material brain, and cannot (according to their logic) have a separate 
existence.  

In this light, it might be well to look at theosophy as being both a 
"religious science," as well as a "scientific religion."  

LHM


In a message dated 05/09/00 7:56:16 PM, ASANAT@aol.com writes:

>In a message dated 4/24/00 9:59:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dalval@nwc.net
>
>writes:
>
><< The following are a few fundamental propositions of Theosophy:
> 
>    Fundamental ideas in Theosophy
> 
> 1.  The SPIRIT in man is the only real and permanent part of his
> being; the rest of his nature being compounded of 7 aspects
> called "principles. These include wisdom, the Mind, the Emotions,
> vitality, a model body (called the Astral Body) and finally the
> physical form we all know.
> 
> 2.  Since change and decay is incident to all composite things,
> everything in man but his Spirit is impermanent. This Unit has
> been named the "Monad" in THE SECRET DOCTRINE.  In terms of the
> "Principles" of man it is:  Atma-Buddhi (Spirit--Discernment --
> or Wisdom)  with it, as a link to the 'personality,' is the Mind
> (Manas).
> 
> 3.  Further, the universe being is actually ONE thing and not
> diverse, and everything within it being connected with the whole,
> and with every other thing therein, of which upon the upper plane
> (below referred to ) there is a perfect knowledge, the whole
> Universe is made up of an infinity of Monad each at its own stage
> of evolution.  These are immortal, eternal Units of Life.  The
> evolutionary process in our Universe includes every one of these.
> Cooperation is the rule of Law,  and this makes up the "field" of
> circumstance and experience that we call the Law of Kama.
> 
> 4.  No act or thought occurs without each portion of the great
> whole
> perceiving and noting it. Hence all are inseparably bound
> together by the tie of Brotherhood.  The "Monads" all around us
> are immediately impressed with our feelings, actions, thoughts
> and words.  Being so "impressed" they become the conveyors of our
> personal "Karma."  >>
>
>Dear Dallas,
>
>Your statement seems to state that Theosophy consists of a series of 
>CONCEPTUAL tenets that are devised by the analytical mind, and addressed
>to 
>the analytical mind.  If this is what you intend, it is in direct 
>contradiction with what HPB & her teachers said, over & over again:  In
>order 
>to even BEGIN to study theosophy (not capitalized, since theosophy is not
>a 
>conceptual system, according to HPB & her Masters), there MUST be 
>regeneration, transformation, initiation.  Your statement, however, does
>not 
>mention transformation at all.  It therefore assumes that a mere 
>acknowledgment and acceptance by the analytical mind is all that is required.
>
> As I have shown in my paper TRANSFORMATION:  VITAL ESSENCE OF HPB'S SECRET
>
>DOCTRINE, according to HPB & the Masters, theosophy is that which takes
>place 
>in theosophical, divine-like, states of awareness.  If there are no 
>theosophical states of awareness, there is no theosophy.  Therefore, ANY
>
>presentation of theosophy MUST state clearly and unambiguously that there
>
>must be transformation in order to understand anything theosophically.
> If it 
>does not do that, it is not a theosophical presentation, according to HPB
>& 
>the Masters.
>Your statement (and ANY statement which claims theosophy can ever be a
>
>CONCEPTUAL system) is at severe variance with what HPB & the Masters taught,
>
>unless I have myself severely misunderstood the many quotes I provide in
>my 
>work.  The very many references I offer, however, suggest rather strongly
>
>that theosophy is not, and cannot be, a conceptual system.
>Conceptual presentations of theosophy WERE given to VICTORIANS at the time
>of 
>HPB, since Victorians did not have the means to know any better.  But now
>
>that we have access to such insights as come from schools like Zen & Tibetan
>
>Buddhism (both of which are specifically singled out by the Masters as
>
>ESOTERIC, & therefore as THEOSOPHICAL); now that we have access to so many
>
>developments in psychology (which were originally inspired by the 
>theosophical movement, as I show in my work), and that other schools have
>
>pointed to the need for transformation (such as the Gurdjieff schools);
>now 
>that J. Krishnamurti has been here, showing more clearly than had ever
>been 
>done before the urgent necessity for transformation if humanity is to go
>
>anywhere meaningful & productive, it seems like a colossal, inappropriate
>
>waste of time & effort to continue grinding such old corn at that Victorian
>
>mill.
>But despite the presence of "tenets" for the benefit of 
>transformation-challenged Victorians in the early days, it is a FACT that
>the 
>Masters always made it crystal clear that theosophy CANNOT happen unless
>
>there is initiation, transformation.  That I show -- I think, beyond a
>shadow 
>of a doubt -- in my work.
>Please do correct me if I'm wrong.  Our understanding of what theosophy
>is, 
>is what is at stake here, not anyone's particular perception of this.
>My paper can be found at:  teosofia.com, which is Rodolfo Don's web page.
>If you are correct that theosophy is a CONCEPTUAL system, then HPB & the
>
>Masters must have been totally wrong, in the many references I provide,
>which 
>comprise the entire corpus of HPB's work, including the letters from the
>
>Masters.
>Please enlighten me.
>Aryel
>

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