RE: Theos-World RE: Karma Why, How on Whom ?
Oct 10, 1999 06:29 AM
by W. Dallas TenBroeck
Oct 10 1999
Dear "Clint":
I am under the impression that I do think and write for myself (and
for others) that they may read and consider what I offer. I have no
particular pride in this, as some of my ideas may be quite wrong, and
I expect to be challenged -- and that is a valuable experience. So,
thank you for yours.
As I have repeatedly said I have studied THEOSOPHY for over 50 years
or so, and find it most useful -- it has explained things that Science
and modern philosophy and psychology have yet to discover and verify.
But that does not make me an authority, only that I have perhaps some
current accumulation of familiarity with that which Theosophy offers.
And it is this that I try to offer to others to look at. But taken
all in all, what I say concerning myself, proves nothing You and any
other student, will have to do each, your own work and study, and
prove for yourself whether the ideas that Theosophy offers have the
"solidity" would like to discover there.
I therefore use those statements that students can find there (I admit
that mine are selective and have value for me, of course) in the
Buddhist sense -- where the Buddhist monk, effacing themselves before
the Buddha's original and basic statements, humbly say: "Thus have I
heard...." Thus letting the Buddha's statements remain alive and
uncensored by them to be received by the listeners, and also to let
those same listeners decide if there is any value to them. I repeat
this statement from time to time and hope that I am not misunderstood.
As I sense that Theosophy hails from that same school of Universal and
Eternal WISDOM, and that the Buddha, Krishna, Christ, Pythagoras,
Plato, Hermes, Zoroaster, and all great Teachers of humanity down the
ages,. taught it. By most, those Great figures of Humanity are
honored by all, for their worth and moral stature. Their teachings
also cohere one with the other on analysis for basic content.
I continue doing what thinking and writing that I do, in the hope that
some may be touched by the "strange," or "conformist and
fundamentalist (Theosophically)" point of view that I express --
hopefully I am not "out of line" with those original teachings.
There is always room for progression. But how do we select a basis
from which to progress? Do not the basics of any study lie in the
work of earlier students? Where shall we find those? What shall we
adopt to start with? Do we not select our areas of study or amusement
all the time?
I do recognize that I am very ignorant of course, and can only express
the obvious and superficial ways in which those important teachings
and views can be considered, I would say that one ought to spend at
least a year on the "solid" study of theosophy before arriving at any
good expression of it. One ought by then to be able to reduce its
teachings to a few, perhaps 7 or 10 main points. (see below). All the
rest being explanations of those.
Obviously you will find in me a person that is devoted to HPB and the
Theosophy that she brought for us to consider. I am of the opinion
that in our rush to learn, we tend to forget those important
statements she issued. This does not preclude the right to
investigate the cutting edge of the most recent discoveries and
philosophical speculation. As can be seen from SD I 272-3 the process
of review is a continual one. But also, no one throws out addition,
subtraction, multiplication and division in even the most advanced
mathematical concepts because they are those basics that we all had to
study in elementary grade school. Basic is basic. If we all agree on
those then where is the trouble?
Of course, it is possible to write for all levels of people -- but as
our conversations and comments are reviewed by many levels of
interest, one has, in my esteem to phrase what one offers in the
simplest of terms and then point to the most recondite of meanings and
uses, for those who enjoy that level of thinking and reviewing. And
of course some get annoyed at those things that they consider to be
elementary. How can one satisfy everyone? Even the Buddha made an
observation on that 2,500 years ago in the DHAMMAPADA,
"This is an old saying, O Atula, it is not of this day only. "They
blame him who sits silent, they blame him who talks much, they blame
him who speaks moderately in measured terms.: there is not any one in
the world who is not blamed." Verse 228, Canto of Anger.(7). --
Buddha
And I find that so did Krishna in several places in the GITA say
practically the same thing, and that was 2,500 years before the
Buddha..
I have found that theosophy (as originally presented) is quite
cohesive and interlocked as to fundamental ideas. This is because it
is (and claims) an expression of the findings and conditions of
Nature -- as examined by students over millennia. It therefore is
"History" in so far as its doctrines are concerned. If you have time
to review and read ISIS UNVEILED and the SECRET DOCTRINE by Mme.
Blavatsky you will find that she gives extensive proof of the
diffusing of the basic ideas of Theosophy -- such as can be found in
all ancient and modern literature. I have tried to expose those that
are important as a group from time to time.
Their consecutive cohesion is to my mind valuable as they offer the
keys to perceiving the results of our modern study and pursuit of
learning. this is only my opinion, and one that you and others will
have to prove for yourself. What better proof can there be ?
Others may see them otherwise according to their conclusions. Of
course I cannot change those, but only use them to revise and review
my own conclusions -- and test them with the "touchstone" of those
"Original Teachings" by HPB, Judge, etc... I try to write on Their
behalf, and not on my own. I try to let Them speak, rather than doing
so for myself -- that in my mind limits me from doing too much
speculation. It is a personal respect for facts that I have
demonstrated to be accurate for myself. I do not expect anyone to
adopt them, but only to use this testimony as an encouragement to do
their own independent research.
If this were some other discipline, say chemistry, physics, astronomy,
mathematics there would be hardly any argument concerning the basis
and fundamentals. But when we get into applied science: as in
technology, biology, medicine, psychology and engineering, there is
ample room for diversity of views, depending on the level and depth of
the training and the curiosity of individuals. Some are by nature
"pioneers" and others "maintenance-men."
Because Theosophy is so much deeper, eclectic and draws attention to
the moral/ethical impact of all that we elect to do, say, or feel, it
is not very palatable to those who would rather not consider that
aspect of its teachings.
What would one do with Karma? If the law of universal compensation is
denied and the sensitivity of all beings is also denied, what can
anyone do with Theosophy if it is truncated? Out goes brotherhood and
any concern for the rights of others, I think.
I you find me quoting, or expressing the statements that can be found
in "ORIGINAL TEACHINGS " by HPB, Judge and others, then it is because
I think those statements have a value that is current. In any case
they are offered for others to review and see if they secure from them
the same kind of value I seem to detect in them.
Now let me try to answer by insertions below some of your specifics:
And, thank you for your comments.
Dal
Dallas
dalval@nwc.net
==============================
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of clint mccray
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 2:29 PM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Karma Why, How on Whom ?
Dallas, sometimes I wonder if you think for yourself,
or just regurgitate what you read from a few books,
like so many blind church goers.
Not saying that all of the things you repeat or print
don't make sense to me, but some don't and here I must
put forward these questions:
1 Why would Divinity break off from itself, why would
perfection become imperfect?
DTB I wish I had a pat answer for this. But the best that I can offer
is that SPIRIT by itself would be an inane beatitude. In SD II 103,
HPB says "morbid inactivity of pure spirit." Krishna, to use an
ancient sage, observed that the whole manifested Universe was composed
of a dynamic equipoise of 3 factors: 1. SPIRIT or purity and
all-knowingness (Sattwa), 2. ACTION and MIND (Rajas), and 3.
INERTIA (Tamas). Man (or rather Humanity) is the focus of these 3 as
an active creative presence
-- each one of us is a part of this present condition. We have to
study, understand and then deal with it by the process of independent
and individual CHOICE.
Hence the process of Evolution always involves a portion of the Spirit
deciding to offer a contrast to the "Inertia" of pure Spirit.
Philosophically, or rather, metaphysically, Evolution proceeds as an
activity between those polar opposites: which we call generally and
abstractly SPIRIT and MATTER.. This is the mysterious and original
"sundering of the ONE." It occurs when under the impulse of KARMA --
universal LAW, manifestation sweeps out of rest and obscuration into
the light of living and developing again in a material environment.
This is an eternal process. (Here we are again in basic metaphysics.)
We are presently involved in such an adventure and each one of us is
at some level trying to make sense of it. Theology, Science and
psychology only seem to have partial answers. Where are we going to
find the "Whole thing ?"
But, one ought to observe and note that there is always a perceptive
quality or principle that is always mid-way between these two. It has
a direct "connection" with the ABSOLUTENESS that anteceded manifested
Spirit and manifested Matter {SD I 14-17} -- hence (as Universal
MIND) it is able to share in either the Wisdom of Spirit, or the
limitations and illusions of "Form and Matter." And one of its
qualities is that it retains its identity. It, MIND is in effect that
immortal power which enables us, as humans to study and penetrate to
the core of any aspect of life and learning. It is the "Rajas"
quality that equipoises and interacts with both Sattwa (perfection and
purity), and Tamas (inertia and material forms). If one considers the
nature of the MONAD (SD I 174-5fn, 631-3) one will find that most of
these ingredients are employed to give us a view of how Spirit acts in
Matter.
2 How can a Universal Law be broken? Is it not a Solid Law?
DTB. It cannot, but its operations have to grasped from small to
great in their entirety -- it is an "ETERNAL Law." "Solidity"
pertains only to manifestation.
KARMA as the ONLY LAW transcends all the gaps however enormous in time
(see SD II 68-70) and arranges to see that all beings (MONADS of
whatever level) receive sooner or later the fruits of their individual
Karma from Manvantara to Manvantara. We are in effect dealing in
thought with a living and dynamic harmony -- and our own evolution at
present is only half way through the great learning experience. We
have, as human minds, come to the level where we are able to begin to
perceive the vast scope of our immortality and the eternity of the
field of learning we are participants in.
3 Maybe the only Universal Law is that Anything Goes. I don't
remember evil even being used as an
applicable term in The Key to Theosophy, unless HPB was trying to
argue with the Preacher.
DTB References to EVIL in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY will be found on pages
112 (contrast with "good"; 181 {Fall into Matter}; 206-7 (synonymous
with disharmony); 211 (and good, relationships between the two --
226, 235, 247-8 254-5, 271-2) Quite a few, and worth a revisit.
Very briefly one can say that evil is "a violation of Universal
cooperative and harmonious Law" -- including especially any acts,
thoughts or feelings that have for object our infringing on others'
rights to live and exist in harmony with Nature where they are at
present.
"ANYTHING GOES" is an expression of Chaos, and does not take into
account the ever underlying plane of cause and effect that is always
in operation and commences as a "cause" with our feelings and
thoughts. Those are items over which we have the power of creation.
But the perception of the area in which we all live shows that we are
always interactive with Nature. You and I cannot live without
contributions from Air, Water, Food, Shelter, etc... and all the
services we expect from civilization. This Universe is COOPERATIVE in
the extreme, but because the area of CAUSES (and their EFFECTS) is
still invisible to us, we tend to doubt its uniformity and symmetries.
4 If we are all one, and if we are allowed to do whatever the hell we
want, then what is the point of
Karma after all?
DTB WHO OR WHAT "ALLOWS" US ?
DTB Incorrect. We are not allowed to do anything without getting a
reaction from the rest of Nature around us. We would like, perhaps to
be able to do that, but we also know that in the eye of the rest of
humanity (and even our legislated statutes) that such utter
irresponsible independence is
impossible.
Look at what you have written: you accuse me of being a "stick in the
mud" and perhaps you would like to be free and creative -- and quite
free of any of the results of your exercise of personal freedom -- if
you have the courage of your convictions why bother to write or
inquire or challenge? Go ahead and prove what you desire to do, and
enjoy the consequences -- there are millions around who would like to
do that too -- what are and where are the constraints? That search
for reason and cause is the beginning of the learning experience.
If we originally broke away from God, maybe we had a good reason, and
getting back to
God is actually the wrong decision. Why go back? Don't we just end
up being absorbed and losing
ourselves that way?
DTB If God is the Universal DEITY -- not a Being, but the whole of
Nature, then no one can ever escape from it -- also it is equally in
each of us as it is in the tiniest of atoms.
Do you really thank that selecting a Personal God does any good? What
is the logic behind that? What does "common-sense" say ? That sounds
like a temporary confusion of mind to me. I do think that theosophy
has more to offer than that.
5 You can talk all day long about how we are one, and we should be
immersed in altuism, preparing for our next life, etc, but in the end
there is just you. Sitting there in front of that screen trying to
make some sense of why things are the way they are: Particularly why
things are the way they are for you!
DTB Absolutely correct. Now what Principles are we gong to select for
a basis?
How about
1. Universal Deity, Every "thing" is in it and a part of it.
2. Justice, Law that is fair and equal for all, (Karma), Every
being gets what it deserves.
3. Life that is everlasting for all, None can kill the essential
being, although its body can be killed.
4. cooperation, - a universal fact of all life together -- no one
is totally isolated.
5. the expansion of one's knowledge and awareness, -- no limits.
6. the perception of a potential goal of Perfection (or
All-Knowingness) -- that anyone -- can attain?
7. The right and the opportunity to discuss, investigate and
demonstrate to yourself if any of these ideas is useful or even
valid.
Finally, I would like to say, we all know so little, we are so small,
but we do have ourselves, and
we are beautiful, amazing...worthwhile. We are these things, in and
of ourselves, no questions asked, no explainations needed,
misspellings and all...
DTB That is the paradox of our living and the soul/mind-power of
thought Each one of us is a miniature Universe with all the
potentials of the GREAT UNIVERSE around us. The great discovery is to
find out HOW DO WE FIT IN ? What part of the mosaic is ours, to live
in, to understand and to work through? Size has nothing to do with
it. What are the limits to one's thought?
All I can say in conclusion is:
Happy seeking
Best wishes to you and all
Dal
------------------------------
BEST WISHES TO ALL OF US
--- "W. Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval@nwc.net> wrote:
> Sept 25th 1999.
>
> Dear Alejandro
>
> What is and how does Karma work.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Very briefly:
>
> Karma is the law of all Life It is the WILL of the
> ONE DEITY which is
> Omnipresent.
>
> As we live we either improve or delay our own
> progress. We are, each one of
> us, a "spark" of the ONE DEITY. We are immortal
> Souls. We are always
> progressing towards a goal of WISDOM -- that leads
> to an understanding of
> the ONE DIVINITY -- which is present in all things.
> It is present as the
> eternal living "Life-Atoms." Each is a Soul, Man's
> Soul is a
> SELF-CONSCIOUS Soul. It can understand the
> Universal PRESENCE of the DEITY.
>
> Our whole environment and Universe is the ONE DEITY.
> And the Laws of
> living are the same for all. We cannot break them
> or mend them as we
> please. But we can affect them, and the effect will
> make our own lives
> pleasant or difficult. The DEITY does not break its
> own universal Laws. it
> is always honest, fair, and true to all its many
> living "sparks" and
> "agents." "Evil" is the breaking of UNIVERSAL LAW.
>
> At the end of each life a balance is struck of
> unfinished business and the
> balance carried by the immortal "spark"-Soul,
> forward, determines how our
> next incarnation starts.
>
> We are constantly determining what our future will
> be like.
>
> This is an honest Universe and the ONE DEITY is
> honest and true to each of
> its uncountable "sparks." It shows no favors or
> special concessions to any
> one of them. It expects each to discover its own
> true DUTY and then to
> follow that voluntarily. If does not coerce or
> force anyone to do anything.
> But it eternally adjusts, so that the final balance
> is UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD
> or HARMONY.
>
> Perfection is within the reach of everyone of us.
> As we sow, so we reap.
>
> The "Golden Rule" of all living is "Treat others in
> the same way as you
> expect them to treat you,"
>
> ----------------------
>
> To give some further explanations let me offer:
>
>
>
> The concept of Karma -- or the law that balances all
> causes to their
> effects -- is based on the fact of the UNIVERSAL
> LAWS of the ONE DEITY that
> pervades the whole Universe.
>
> The whole urge of every being in the Universe is to
> perceive and understand
> what GOD is.
>
> Every atom, stone, plant, animal, man is full of
> that great and fundamental
> urge. Manifestation is therefore the great Law of
> Progress for all beings.
> Every being comes into existence from the beginning
> of the Universe, as soon
> as the DEITY desires that manifestation and
> evolution should take place.
>
> Since GOD is everywhere and is also eternal, every
> one of the BEINGS in the
> Universe, being a part of DEITY, are also eternal
> pilgrims.
>
> They pass in succession through many forms and
> bodies.
>
> They live in those, and when the time for their
> physical death occurs, the
> inner SPIRITUAL ESSENCE -- which is the immortal
> part, a "spark" of the ONE
> DEITY -- leaves, rests, meditates on the experiences
> of the last embodiment,
> and then reincarnates.
>
> In the Holy Bible you will remember that Jesus, the
> illumined Son of God
> taught this in several places, one of them is the
> statement that He made
> that St. John the Baptist, was the prophet Elijah
> who had been destined to
> "return."
>
> As to how Karma works. As we feel about things, as
> we think about them and
> as we plan our actions, we direct an energy into
> making decisions. Those
> plans affect all the sensitive and immortal beings
> (or "divine sparks")
> around us. They impact first of all on our brains
> and our physical form.
> Every "spark-atom" that makes up our body at that
> time records it. The
> environment also records it as the radiation of
> thought has no limits.
>
> It is now important to see that there are two very
> different forces or
> energy that we can develop (or "create") when we
> feel, think and act. The
> MOTIVE makes the difference between "good," and
> "evil." If our plans are
> directed towards the cooperation of the Life that
> Deity has given to all
> things in nature, as He propels them forward on
> their individual
> evolutionary path, we call them "good." We are
> then, in harmony with Deity
> and its purposes.
>
> If our plans are selfish, directed only towards our
> personal benefit,
> towards our isolated ease and happiness; if they
> are careless and forgetful
> of the rest of the beings that are also "God's sons
> and daughters" in their
> immortal essence, we create "evil."
>
> So the essential difference between "good," and
> "evil" is the fact that the
> choices made by us will either assist the DEITY in
> its original plan of
> allowing all beings without exception to learn the
> Nature of DEITY, or,
> they will slow down, obstruct, or pervert that great
> purpose.
>
> If the whole of the DEIFIC LAW of good and progress
> is hurt and distorted by
> selfish motives, the evil so generated (whether
> known by others or unknown
> to them) reacts through the beings that are
> affected. The Karma (or the
> combined result) that is ours comes as an exact
> response from and through
> those Deity-living-sparks of LIFE.
>
> If the ONE DEITY is omnipresent, as we started out
> saying, then it is also
> Omniscient. It KNOWS everything that happens. Not
> even a sparrow falls,
> but that fall is noted.
>
> Everything is adjusted, so that any harmony that is
> disturbed raises those
> forces of the ONE DEITY that will restore balance.
> Since the UNIVERSE is
> indeed vast, we can understand that the enactment of
> the GREAT LAWS is
> supervised by trusted "agents:" These have been
> called the Archangels,
> Angels, Saints, Prophets, and other supervising
> Presences that have become
> perfect in their knowledge of DEITY so as to be
> trusted to act impartially
> and universally in all cases. But mankind in
> general does not always
> understand this.
>
> This Goal of perfect fitting into the Laws of the
> One Deity has already been
> stated above. so Karma is that aspect of the ONE
> LAW which acts on behalf
> of the ONE DEITY with each of its many "sparks" and
> detached -- even the
> "least of things."
>
> This also gives us a clue to the nature of the third
> aspect
=== message truncated ===
=====
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