Theos-Talk Archives (September 1999 Message tt00154)

Sept 15th 1999

May I say a few words?

There is interesting reading to be had in Mahatma Letters.

For instance on  p. 352 (Old Edition # 62) The Master writes to
Sinnett that he was the one who in spite of opposition won the right
to try and put theosophy before the West and Europe and America..  I
saying this he reveals what the strict methods of the Lodge are.

If we turn to page 398 --- he speaks of the difficulties that arose in
the TS in London and differences of opinion there.  He gives a hint of
the Laws that rule behind the scenes.

He also speaks to the original purposes of the establishment of the TS
as follow:

"...the purpose we have all at heart, namely the dissemination of
TRUTH through Esoteric doctrines, conveyed by whatever religious
channel, and the effacement of crass materialism and blind prejudices
and skepticism."  ML 398 bottom

If we all take those statements to heart as the core of the effort of
Theosophy in this era, then such differences as a re personal can be
dropped and forgotten since all they do is divide us one from the
other.

It is Unity that is essential -- the seeking for TRUTH, and then the
application of that to the world situation which begins in our homes
and at our doors.  It is not far away duties, but those which we can
do where we are that are going to count.

We need to let the ideal of UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD ring out and touch
the heart of all who hear it spoken of.  and we need the wisdom of the
original teachings of Theosophy to be able to adequately explain its
value.

With best wishes to all,

Dallas

Dallas
dalval@nwc.net 


-----Original Message-----
From: Theosophy Study List digest [mailto:theos-l@list.vnet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 9:00 PM
To: theos-l digest recipients
Subject: theos-l digest: September 14, 1999


Theosophy Study List Digest for Tuesday, September 14, 1999.

1. Internet Disorganization and harmony of the Universe
2. Re: Internet in India:TS-Adyar
3. Re: Internet in India:TS-Adyar
4. Lock-step mentality

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Subject: Internet Disorganization and harmony of the Universe
From: M K Ramadoss <ramadoss@eden.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:30:24 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Harmony of the Universe and disorganization of Internet.

Executives from some of the largest multinational companies will soon
meet
in Paris to discuss how to tame Internet.

Internet's wide spread use was not forseen by any of the large
multinational companies and in fact most woke up one day find the
pervasive
use of Internet which they could no longer ignore. Had these companies
had
a hand at the early stages of growth, they would have tried to
influence
its growth to suit their pockets.

It is to be noted that some do not understand that the whole nature of
Internet is disorganization. The planned meeting is another attempt to
organize it with committees. Many see the meeting is yet another
attempt by
big business to dominate the lucrative industry squashing innovation
along
the way. One professor commented "The Internet offers some unique
opportunities to really change the economic base of the world. But
most of
them do not want change."

As soon as companies become big, they want status quo. It is true of
all
organizations and Theosophical is no exception. That is optimal for
them
but not for the world at large.

There is some similarity between the disorganization of Internet and
that
discord is the harmony of the Universe.

On the latter, there is a reference to it in Mahatma K.H.'s letter #85
to
APS. Here is the quote which has some additional material of some
interest
re: TS.

================

I need hardly point out how the proposed arrangement is calculated to
lead
to a harmonious progress of the "L.L. T.S." It is a universally
admitted
fact that the marvellous success of the Theosophical Society in India
is
due entirely to its principle of wise and respectful toleration of
each
other's opinions and beliefs. Not even the President-Founder has the
right
directly or indirectly to interfere with the freedom of thought of the
humblest  member, least of all to seek to influence his personal
opinion.
It is only in  the absence of this generous consideration, that even
the
faintest shadow of  difference arms seekers after the same truth,
otherwise
earnest and sincere,  with the scorpion-whip of hatred against their
brothers, equally sincere and  earnest.

Deluded victims of distorted truth, they forget, or never knew, that
discord is the harmony of the Universe.

Thus in the Theos. Society, each part,  as in the glorious fugues of
the
immortal Mozart, ceaselessly chases  the other in harmonious discord
on the
paths of Eternal progress to meet and  finally blend at the threshold
of
the pursued goal into one harmonious whole,  the key-note in nature
[Sanskrit characters for "Sat."] Absolute justice makes no difference
between the many and the few.  Therefore, while thanking the majority
of
the "L.L" Theosophists for  their "loyalty" to us their invisible
teachers,
we must at the same  time, remind them that their President, Mrs.
Kingsford, is loyal and true also -- to that which she believes to be
the
Truth. And, as she  is thus loyal and true to her convictions, however
small the minority  that may side with her at present, the majority
led by
Mr. Sinnett, our  representative in London, cannot with justice charge
her
with the guilt, which  -- since she has emphatically disclaimed all
intention of breaking the letter or  the spirit of Article VI of the
Rules
of the Parent Theos. Society  (which please see and read) -- is one
only in
the eyes of those who would be  rather too severe. Every Western
Theosophist should learn and remember,  especially those of them who
would
be our followers -- that in our Brotherhood,  all personalities sink
into
one idea -- abstract right and absolute practical  justice for all.
And
that, though we may not say with the Christians, "return  good for
evil" --
we repeat with Confucius -- "return good for good;  for evil --
JUSTICE."
Thus, the Theosophists of Mrs. K.'s way of thinking,  -- were they
even to
oppose some of us personally to the bitter end, -- are  entitled to as
much
respect and consideration (so long as they are sincere) from  us and
their
fellow-members of opposite views, as those who are ready with Mr.
Sinnett
to follow absolutely but our special teaching. A dutiful regard for
these
rules in life will always promote the best interests of all concerned.
It
is necessary for the parallel progress of the groups under Mrs. K. and
Mr.
S.  that neither should interfere with the beliefs and rights of the
other.
And it  is seriously expected that both of them will be actuated by an
earnest and  sleepless desire to respect the philosophical
independence of
each other, while  preserving at the same time their unity as a
whole --
namely the objects of the  Parent Theos. Society in their integrity --
and
those of the London Lodge, in  their slight modification.


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Subject: Re: Internet in India:TS-Adyar
From: hesse600 <hesse600@tem.nhl.nl>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:23:01 +0200 (Romance Daylight Time)
X-Message-Number: 2

Dear Jerry, and Alan,
Jerry wrote:
> Perhaps this discussion has tended in the wrong direction. I hope
you aren't
 getting the feeling anyone is saying you ought to do
anything. There certainly are a few thousand members still
in the American section, and hundreds in other sections.
And that is just the Adyar organization. A good
 number of people belong without running into any
difficulties at all - but there are all sorts of motives
and expectations for being a member (of any
 organization) ... most folks in Theosophy simply wish to
study topics that interest them, and pay little if any
attention to the way the organization is run. Relatively
few even bother to vote in elections, let alone spend the
 time and energy to examine the minutes of board meetings,
or financial statements, or look at membership figures. And
of those that do, few of *them* do anything other than take
the "official" pronouncements of the leaderships at face
value, or attempt to gain information from any channels
 other than the publications controlled, produced, and
distributed by the leaderships. And no one is saying any
Theosophist *ought* to. >

One question that is asked a lot, and people all over the
world are worrying about, is the membership issue. People
are worrying. And from the bottom up, the internet is
getting into the TS.
> why do you suppose that in an era when
> organizations all over the world are overwhelmingly embracing the
Internet
> as a fanatastic means of growing their ranks and communicating with
their
> members, that not a single *elected official* of the TS Board has
ever
> joined a discussion on this list (though we have it on good
authority that
> they *read* it with great interest)?
Yes, I also have that impression (that it is read, I mean)
> By the same token, however, please understand that
others, *MANY* others, have had experiences with the TS
quite different than yours, have witnessed tricks
 and actions by the elected leaderships so low and dirty
that in other organizations they'd get people booted out of
office in disgrace, and that regardless of the fact that
many don't want to hear about these things, and
 will get defensive (and in some cases even attack) when
they do, *I* perceive the TS to be *dying*, due to the
attitudes and activities of its leaderships (both
international and in some national sections). I can point
 to a whole number of variables and characteristics that
are common to any organization on the verge of dissolution
(a great deal of study has gone into the various stages of
organizational lifecycles, and the TS is not
 "special" in any way - if we permit it to die, the
"Masters" aren't gonna come out of the blue and save it ...
in fact several of them - if you believe the Mahatma
Letters - didn't think it had much of a chance in the
 first place). And because the internet is the only place
*ANY* dissenting views can even be voiced (so much for
freedom of thought) I *will* keep periodically stirring the
soup.>
Yes, I appreciate your worries and in fact share a lot of
them, though of course there does not seem to be a way of
checking them. If I have come across differently, I am
sorry about that.
 > And frankly, the fact that speaking such things, raising
dissenting opinions, voicing complaints, pointing at
behaviours on the part of the leadership, at objective
measures that show an organization in a dangerous decline,
and at the connection between the two - the fact that this
is considered everything from "pessimistic" to "evil" is
itself a sign of the decline. *HEALTHY* organizations
(indeed, even healthy governments) not only provide avenues
and forums for their critics, but even see such dissenting
voices as a principle means of *maintaining* their health.
Their leaderships *understand* they will have to be
accountable. Their members *understand* that while they may
disagree with the critics and agree with the leadership at
any particular moment, that it is *profoundly* important
that no voices be silenced ... because at some time down
the road they may *themselves* be the one disagreeing with
a leadership, and they would not want *their* voices
silenced.>
aye. Which is one of the reasons why I am on the net in the
first place. Here I hear more about those things, than
within the TS. And you are right, that is worrysome.

Katinka
----------------------
NHL Leeuwarden
hesse600@tem.nhl.nl


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Internet in India:TS-Adyar
From: M K Ramadoss <ramadoss@eden.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:21:50 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3

At 11:23 AM 09/14/1999 +0200, hesse600 wrote:
>One question that is asked a lot, and people all over the
>world are worrying about, is the membership issue. People
>are worrying. And from the bottom up, the internet is
>getting into the TS.

In line with the democratic approach, where many things are done
bottom up,
you are very perceptive in your observation. How else internet could
get
in? It is a new technology that only current generation is really into
it.
While some old folks are also into it, many either do not understand
or
just ignore. Much of the leadership is old; they are set in their ways
of
thinking and doing for a long time; One should not be surprised if
they do
not understand Internet or do not know how to use it as a tool for
theosophy.

When the French Revolution took place, it is the public driven by the
ideals that started it. Hopefully, in spite of the lack of
participation
from the leadership, I hope the membership takes the use of Internet
in
their hands and spread theosophy. It is already happening; look at the
maillists which are not owned or controlled by the organizations.

Internet may be the saviour of theosophy in the next millenium.

mkr

PS: I will respond later to your earliest msg.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Lock-step mentality
From: kymsmith@micron.net
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:47:06 -0600
X-Message-Number: 4

JRC wrote:

>Fact is, Microsoft pays *way* more attention to the world around
itself than
>the TS does. Gates makes himself accessible to both employees as well
as the
>general public, and voluntarily and purposefully seeks to *LEARN*
from his
>critics, not shut their mouths. The result is a company full of
people
>filled with almost a religious fervor, deeply committed to objective
>results, producing software used on 90% of the world's PC's, and
continuing
>to survive in an industry that every year sees small companies become
huge,
>and huge companies fail overnight.

Whoa!  I'll agree that Microsoft pays more attention to the world than
the
TS, but that does not mean that Microsoft has "good" intentions nore
does
it mean that Microsoft's way is to be emulated by those in the
"spiritual
business."

Microsoft, as you say, has managed to dominate 90% of the world's
PC's -
meaning, it's their way or no way.  There are many paths to the
Divine; to
demand or manipulate people to do it your way, or to limit ways, is
not
admirable.

Nor do I agree that approaching Theosophy with a "religious fervor"
(as
Microsoft's employees do) is a wise philosophy.  Too much committment
to
something can make one blind and unintentionally cruel.  One walks a
fine
line between "religious fervor" and self-righteousness.

Microsoft may have succeeded in securing material wealth, pushing
others
out of business, and steering people like sheep in the computer field,
but
they would make lousy spiritual workers.  Spiritual "success" cannot
necessarily be counted in numbers - for if 90% of the whole world
thinks
"wrongly" about issues of Compassion and spirituality, it cannot be
hailed
as a "success."

Microsoft's philosophy is good for Microsoft; but not necessarily for
Apple.  It is the same with Theosophy.


Kym






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