Theos-Talk Archives (September 1999 Message tt00011)

Sept 2nd 1999

Dear Art:

Today Rich Tailor just posted a valuable comparison between the
currently available Oriental texts and the work that HPB did in
promulgating Theosophy.

You have in my esteem one continuing problem:  the accuracy of the
translations.  If you happen to know two languages well, then you will
find that any translator is faced with the problem of being accurate
to the WORDS he translates, or the IDEAS. It is easy enough to
translate WORDS.  But the subtle meanings then get distorted as they
may be, in some  important cases, expressed idiomatically in different
ways.  One has to know the underlying motive or philosophy in all
cases to do a truly good job of translating the flavor of meaning
inherent in the original.

As I understand it, HPB, as the "Messenger," did no more than make the
Mahatma's ideas (and when they desired their actual words) available
to us.  She used many quotations -- because those probably represented
the best way in which to convey ideas to us in general.  Those also
offered a stepping-stone to assist the minds of scholars to access the
records of the past as well as the minds of contemporary students and
authorities.

There is no question in my mind that our response represents a mixture
of what we study and what we think about.  If you look back over the
pathways on one's acquisition of present knowledge, we find that this
can be divided into several phases;  the first phase is the imbibing
and recording of information on the assumption that it is TRUE.

Next, as greater assurance and a wider basis is accessed, differences
are noted and questions as to accuracy arise.  Either these are
shelved or they are pursued.  It depends on whether we are personally
motivated by a search for THE TRUTH, or by a search for the
presentation of that which our current teachers believe is evidence of
our scholarship and conformity to their criteria, right or wrong.

In other words we become good parrots and do not "rock the boat" with
objections, contradictions, and unsettle existing theories too much --
a little leeway showing individualism and the power to be a critic is
of course acceptable and even acceptable.  But the main hypothesis is
always "sacrosanct."

Once our scholarship is assured, and we have achieved a parity with
those who have instructed, or, even surpassed them, we acquire greater
freedom to investigate and criticize the work and findings, or
theories of others.  Response to that depends on the self-fancied
altitude of those who are currently the arbiters of the Science or
Philosophy concerned.

Finally we may become total objectors because to us conflicting
findings and facts demonstrate that the whole theory or hypothetical
base was ill-assumed.  And that requires very great strength of
purpose pursued (possibly) to eventual academic martyrdom.

The true scholar is one who seeks facts and truth careless of
opinions, unless they indicate where he may have made himself some
important error.  For this reason an innovation has to be most
carefully and fully prepared, documented, proved and supported, so
that any possible conflict merely falls back on the one who advances
objections to it, because of their failure to allow for its
possibility.

In Orientalism, and research into antiquity of all kinds, there is
ample room for error, and the going can get very tough indeed.  Most
of the demonstration, criticism and writing becomes tedious after a
while.

In regard to the work that HPB did. One may hold any opinion one
wants.  The main fact is that Theosophy pioneered inter-disciplinary
research criticism, and a rigorous demand for an interpretation of the
MEANING of the words that were being translated.  It has provided at
least a stepping stone to a realization -- that there may be a
unity -- that underlies all antique religio-philosophical systems. It
has tried to identify this unity by pointing out all the factors that
demonstrate this.

That factor and that pioneering work cannot be taken away from her.
What then is being attacked?  It is the implications of MEANING.

Consider:  if Theosophy is correct, every one of our existing
conventions has to be altered.  The common morality of all dealings
will have to be massively changed.  Are we, is the world of business,
scholarship, economics, husbandry, etc., ready to make honesty the
sole criterion for continuing relations?

As one example among the Christian sects and nations,  Are they
willing to put into application the rules that Jesus promulgated in
THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT?  Our modern methods and world would not last
a week.  It would have to change entirely and each one would have to
do this voluntarily.  No, we are all considering the fate of those who
pioneer a reform.  It pleases some and in many it causes great fear.

But far more valuable are the implications of what she offered:  the
unifying views of our world and purpose for existence.  Do we object
to those, and if so why ?  Is the ethos that Theosophy represents
useful, accurate or not ?  That underlies all the definitions and
quotations that are offered.

The concept and teaching about the Mahatmas is one that logically
derives from the perfectibility of man.  It is trite indeed to observe
the sorry way in which their Names and worth has been used since HPB's
days.  Only those who grasped the great vision of perfection that They
represent are able to in any way honor them by attempting to alter
their lives so as to become worthy of their presence.  And, that
presence is never an external one, but only and always interior to the
disciple, and one of which he will never speak publicly -- so says
HPB.

Superficially and externally They are not the least concerned with the
manner in which the average man, or even the well-educated man,
regards them.  They are very remote from that.  They presented through
HPB a fragment of the Wisdom Religion--the Sanatana Dharma -- the
Perennial Philosophy to which you refer.  that was their duty at this
cycle.

It is no in our hands as to what we shall do with it.

But that does not say in the least who They are, or where They are, or
what They do today.  That aspect is totally removed from our purview.
They do not want adherents or chelas or anything.  Yes, they do want
one thing:  They want us to become by conviction more brotherly.

How is this to be done -- by studying the philosophy and applying it
to the extent that we are able to grasp it. Do we reject it?  Then how
would Their presence be of any worth to us?  We might pass Them on the
street and never recognize Them.

It makes little difference to Them or to the world in the
"organization" that They started through HPB succeeds of fails.  It is
the PHILOSOPHY and its freedom making ideas that are important.  They
hope that the TS will serve to open men's minds to the great
principles of life that lead to individual perfection.

No organization is worth its name unless the members practice
voluntarily and from the heart the ethics implied in its metaphysics,
theories, and views or facts.  If those are wrong and discohate, then
nothing makes the Name worth anything.

Please understand that these are my private views on these two
important subjects.

I hope they clarify still further what I wrote earlier.

Best wishes,

Dallas
 PS  If you wish to read HPB's own views on these subjects then read
her letter/article

A PUZZLE FROM ADYAR.  and

WHY I DO NOT RETURN TO INDIA.

======================

Dallas
dalval@nwc.net 

=====================================

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com]On Behalf Of The Clan
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:17 PM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Theos-World Recommendations/Respoinse to Dallas


Dallas, Thanks for your response... I agree with all that you have
stated
as to principles such as the Monad - Jiva; The laws of Karma and
Reincarnation; the Spiritual source and reality of existence...; the
goal
of progressive evolution. that's why I suppose I'm a theosophist...
What is
called Sanatana Dharma the Eternal Religion, the Perrenial Philosophy,
etc.
I find it in the writings of Sankaracharya... Tsong Kappa and
others...
What HPB did for her time was to synthesize Mahayana Buddhist
philosophy
and Sankhya and share it with the West...  one of the things the
Theosophical Society did quite nicely a hundred years ago.

We can now of course go directly to these sources and speak with
actual
spokesmen ... the manner in  which you can study Sanskrit directly
from
Sanskrit scholars is much easier today than it was at the time of HPB.

THE MASTERS:

The role of these Masters needs to be looked at very closely. I
believed
they did serve a function at the time, however as you no doubt recall
there
were controversies regarding their existence and their message within
the
TS itself. The messages Judge received after HPB's passing were viewed
at
the time as controversial. The concept of the Masters was later used
by
succeeding receptors such as the Baileys and further revelations
proceeded.
The modern day channelling material is a further exension I think of
the
role the Masters had in the early TS. But what is the true utility of
all
this material, especially since we have real Tibetans in our midst,
and
real Advaitins... Very little mention is made of the very legitimate
saints
and sages that mother India has produced in the past hundred years...
the
Masters on the other hand still receive their due...

My feeling is that what the TS did fairly well years ago has now been
taken
over by many very legitimate organizations directly representing the
philosophies people used to regard as remote and obscure. As the world
is
shrinking I think we need to see the new world as it is and find our
way in
it, that may mean making painful decisions and changing the way things
have
been done for a long time. Change is usually painful or at least
uncomfortable for us. Here's hoping the TS has many fruitful years
ahead in
the next millenium!

- Art Gregory


lgregory@discover.net




















-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.


-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.