Theos-Talk Archives (July 1999 Message tt00062)

| --- Nick Weeks <Nick.Weeks@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| >
| > There is no "design" nor designer -- horrific or
| > good.

Clint:
>Are you saying there is no great plan?  Just a random combination of
>energies resulting in this.

N:
Words like plan or design implied to me a Supreme Planner or God.
Theosophy does not require or recognize such a personal puppetmaster of the
universe.  However this does not mean randomness rules.  There is a great
Pattern and many precise sub-patterns.  There is also vast Wisdom,
Compassion and Power in Nature -- or more precisely Nature IS Intelligent
etc.  There are countless hierarchies of deities or gods, but no supreme
deity over all.

C:
| We were the
| > god-force and the god and gods of the universe.
| > When we gods took upon
| > ourselves bodies of much coarser matter during the
| > process of incarnation,
| > that dull matter dimmed and blocked our recollection
| > of our true nature,
| > powers and sense of  unity with all life.

C:
>Are we de-evolving spiritually?  What provoked us as pure beings to
>become impure?

N:
Duty and compassion were there main motives.  Some of us came down because
it the duty of the higher to uplift and assist the less lives.  Others
wanted to reduce the suffering of these lower living forces and so put on
the forms we now wear.
| > It is a thought scenario, neither bad nor good -- we
| > supply the qualities,
| > good or bad.  The Masters do what they are able to
| > do, often involving real
| > sacrifice.  But  the karmic laws of thought are
| > intrinsic to the universe
| > and cannot be obliterated.  They can be understood
| > though.
| >
| > There are no total innocents nor complete monsters.
| > Everything surrounds
| > us, but why do certain people, events, thoughts and
| > feelings come into our
| > lives?  We attract what we are.  What we are not
| > never affects us.

C:
>So is there no such thing as evil, or wrong, if we simply are, and we
>attract what we are, then why change?  By change we would deny our true
> selves, given that some are born bad.
>On the same note: can and/or should "evil" and destructive elementals
>and greater forces change for the good?

N:
What we are or are not at present is the result of our previous pattern of
thinking and feeling over many lifetimes.  Our True Self is above this
personal pattern that we have chosen, thought by thought, to produce.  If
one wishes not to change a bad habit or personal tendency -- so be it -- we
do it all the time.  But the True Nature of each individual and all of the
universe is not personal; it is lawful and orderly and just and
compassionate.   Thus if the person chooses to ignore selflessness and
compassion, Nature's Law will try to correct the imbalance by reminding us
with sorrow, suffering and trial that someone (that means you and me) is out
of step with Nature.

| > Part of the Masters function is to try and teach
| > humanity that there are no
| > injustices.

C:
> If there are no injustices, then there would be no karmic debt.  It had
> to begin somewhere

Justice and injustice are words for order and chaos .  Debit and credit and
never random and thus are part of order or Justice.

| > There are Adepts and Sages even today.   Some years
| > ago a child of 8 or 9
| > was brought in his wheelchair to visit a known
| > healer and sage.  He had been
| > born with a sever spinal deformity and many other
| > health problems.  He would
| > probably never see his teen years.  When the sage
| > walked by the boy he did
| > nothing but look at him.  No kind words and
| > certainly no healing.  The boy's
| > parents were distraught and furious.  The mother ran
| > after the sage and
| > berated him for being a phony and heartless.  The
| > sage asked her if she
| > wanted to know why he could not heal her son .    He
| > took her inside a
| > building nearby and sat her down facing a blank
| > wall.  Look, he said.  On
| > the wall pictures of judge in some ancient culture
| > appeared.  This judge was
| > cruelty personified.  He devoted all of adult life
| > to ruling in favor of
| > every torturous imprisonment and death for even the
| > smallest "crimes".   The
| > mother recognized her son of this life in the cruel
| > judge of long ago.   She
| > was silent and understood.

C:
|  Good point, I liked the story.  Did Christ heal people, and if so, was
| he willing to only heal certain ones, or did he take on their own
| karmic debt?

N:
This is, like everything I have written,  just my view.   I think healers
like Christ can take on our karma sometimes.  But it just increases our
debt.  Our burdens can temporarily be lightened by another, but in the long
run, we will have to either take up a load twice as heavy or carry a part of
His burden that is equal in weight to  what he lifted from us.

| > Until we in the West get to a similar point and have
| > confidence that Karma
| > is real and we are our own best friends and worst
| > enemies  reactions such as
| > yours will continue.  The tendency is rail against
| > this  nonsense and reject
| > it; especially at a time like now, when you are so
| > upset.
| >
| > These words on a screen cannot do much to help.
| > But you have within you
| > all that is required to solve the problem and find
| > hope -- if you just TRY
| > to rely on the god with you.
|  Nicholas

| > Thanks dude, it makes me thrill on life knowing you are out there
| reading this dialog.
|                                     Clint

Good.  No one is truly alone and apart.


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