Theos-Talk Archives (April 1999 Message tt00055)

April 5th

Dear Gerry:

I read what you write and note that you apparently are trying your
best to get Karma limited to the HERE AND NOW. And using translations
of the Buddhist doctrines as a basis for discussion.  I am not using
the Buddhist views as they may be tainted in some way by the mind of
the translator or even our minds when we read them.

I put some notes  below on this.

Dal

======================



              Dallas TenBroeck
              dalval@nwc,net




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com]On Behalf Of Gerald
Schueler
Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:51 AM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Theos-World Reimbodying Manvantaras


>>HERE I DISAGREE AS NOT EVEN THE UNIVERSE CAN PASS FROM PRALAYA TO
MANVANTARA WITHOUT A CAUSE, AND TO ME THAT CAUSE IS AN ASPECT OF
KARMA WHICH IS AN INSEPARABLE PART OF THE ABSOLUTENESS. >>

We can always agree to disagree, can't we?  Why can't
one manvantara beget another via cause and effect
without bringing Absoluteness into the picture? HPB shows
a wonderful figure in the SD of the lifewaves on the Globes
of the Moon going over to the Globes of the Earth all
within the same 7-plane universe.

>She also says that between the Moon-chain and our Earth-chain there
is the Pralaya, when
>all is within the bosom of the ABSOLUTE  (as I understand it).  Just
as we are in DEVACHAN
>between incarnations.


>>IN FACT TO BE EVEN MORE "OBSCURE" ONE MIGHT HAVE TO SAY THAT ANY
LIMITATION OF MANIFESTATION IS CAUSED BY SOME PRIOR CHOICE/IMPOSED
MODIFICATION, OF WHICH THERE IS A MEMORY IMPACTED
IN AKASA AND WHICH THEREAFTER FORMS A BASE FOR KARMA INDIVIDUAL OR
COLLECTIVE TO MANIFEST ALSO.>>

Agreed. Are you aware that akasa is within our 7-plane
solar system?  That the shistas are too?

>Akasa is the highest aspect of the "Astral Light" --related to
Mulaprakriti and to Mahabuddhi
>and both of these come into manifestation again at the dawn of
Manvantara from the ABSOLUTE
>(along with the contrast of Paramatma -- the Universal SPIRIT).

>As I understand it, there is a wide difference between these
Universal "principles" in and out
>of manifestation.  But in the "in-between stage" they are not
abolished, only quiescent and
>asleep, so to say.

>.AS I understand it the "sishtas" are the SEEDS -- of what ?  Of
cause and effect.  They are the >first manifest CAUSE of a new
manifestation or the return of the Karma stored up form the past
>Manvantara.  It is in effect an endless chain of Universes, just as
our incarnations are endless.
>.KARMA as an ETERNAL NECESSITY is never totally voided.  If that were
possible then  supreme
>injustice and CHAOS would ensue.


There is just no need
to suggest that Karma can exist outside our 7-plane system
and to do so would fly in the face of Buddhist doctrine,
which is not necessary here.


>But why limit yourself, and us to "Buddhist doctrines?" especially if
they do not make logical
>sense.  Of all the systems that I have studied, the Buddhist
doctrines are the closest to
>Theosophy in practicality.  And the Buddha came as a reformer and a
popularizer of Hindu
>esotericism.  Hence he was cordially hated by those Brahmins who saw
that his reform would
>remove the ignorant from their control.  And it took several
centuries to rally the political
>power of thoughtless Kings to secure the ejection of Buddhism from
India. And India has since
>then suffered from that lack.



I do agree, however, that
SOMETHING must exist. All we really need is the desire
to self-express or self-manifest. If we can assume that
creativity is a divine attribute, then it would all be explained
without karma.  Karma is time dependent and it is just
plain illogical to suggest that something time-dependent
can exist outside of time.
But I think that when we start talking about reimbodying
manvantaras, we may be getting in over our heads. Its
certainly over mine.

>I am speaking about logic and to me the obvious, not suggesting that
we ought to look for details,
>only to let the idea simmer for a while, so that its possibility may
be considered.  Of course you
>are right that it has little relation to the personal problems of our
daily here and now.

>Best wishes,

>Dal		April 5th 1999



Jerry S


























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