Theos-Talk Archives (March 1999 Message tt00156)

Referring to your following questioning of the character, motives and
credibility of Robert Crosbie... As a supposed historical scholar, I would
think that you would study the writings of RC and find out directly for
yourself instead of referring to dubious second hand accounts of long dead
others who had their own axes to grind--as you apparently also have.  

As for the questions you ask directly of Mr. Crosbie... They smack of personal
derogation by implication and innuendo, and I don't think he would waste time
answering them, even if he could. 

LHM

In a message dated 3/16/99 4:09:48 AM, davidgreen@hotmail.com writes:

>
>In a series of articles appearing in "Theosophy" magazine, the U.L.T.'s
>
>official journal, Mr Robert Crosbie made a series of claims about W Q 
>Judge, about the various esoteric sections then in existence & about the
>
>true School of the Masters.  The following excerpts give some indication
>
>of Crosbie's claims---
>
>"H.P. Blavatsky and W.Q. Judge, in their capacity of Messengers, cannot
>
>be separated; They stand or fall together. . . ."  "Theosophy," February
>
>1915.
>
>"H.P.B. and W.Q.J. came from *another world*, separated from human 
>consciousness by a great gulf.  They established a bridge between their
>
>world and ours.  They were in constant connection and communication with
>
>the Lodge . . . ."  "Theosophy," July 1915.
>
>". . . Those who represented the Masters of the Great Lodge were not 
>casual students attracted to a philosophy, nor mere tyros in occultism,
>
>but Initiates-----masquerading in the mortal garments known as H.P. 
>Blavatsky and William Q. Judge.  This is a matter of knowledge to living
>
>persons today."  "Theosophy," April 1915.
>
>In regards to Crosbie's last sentence, who were these "living persons"
>
>about whom Robert Crosbie was writing?  How does he know about this?  
>Was Mr Crosbie one of those "living persons"?
>
>". . . the various theosophical societies and esoteric sections of the
>
>day are in no sense representative of the School of the Masters or the
>
>Theosophical Movement. . . .The Anciently universal Wisdom-Religion, the
>
>School of the Masters and the Theosophical Movement are in unbroken 
>continuity of existence to-day as always. . . .Now, as always, they have
>
>their representatives and agents among men, who cannot be found out by
>
>any but those who have earned the right to know them. . . ."  
>"Theosophy," February 1915
>
>Who are these agents, one might ask?
>
>"Today, after a quarter of a century, there are no less than three 
>widely heralded ---and a half dozen lesser known---'outer heads,' 
>'esoteric sections,' 'visible agents,' and what-not, all issuing 
>'orders,' 'instructions,' and 'teachings,' professedly emanating from 
>the Masters of H.P.B. and from H.P.B. herself. . . .No Brahmanism, no 
>Catholicism, no Jesuitry, has ever exceeded the arrogance of its 
>pretensions to spiritual authority on the part of its leaders. . . ." 
>
>"Theosophy," July 1915.
>
>Notice that Mr Crosbie is not shy in dishing out harsh criticism of the
>
>various Esoteric Sections of Mrs Besant, Mrs Tingley, Mr Hargrove & 
>others.  These various esoteric sections were private organizations.  
>Why was it Mr Crosbie's business to harshly criticize what was going on
>
>in private groups?  Was it any of his business?  Would our presentday Mr
>
>Richard Taylor chastise Mr Crosbie for commenting on things which were
>
>really none of his business?
>
>Again how does Robert Crosbie know these "facts"?  These are "big" 
>claims & strong words on Mr Crosbie's part.
>
>"If, then, the true Theosophical Movement, and the true Chelas of the 
>School of the Masters are not to be found among those who have lost the
>
>point of contact with the Masters, while yet loudly proclaiming 
>themselves Initiates and Outer and Inner Heads of this, that, and the 
>other theosophical society and esoteric section, where may they be 
>discerned? . . ."  "Theosophy," March 1915
>
>Yes, tell us Mr Crosbie, how may they be discerned?
>
>". . . the actual name of the School of the Masters [is not] used by any
>
>of the so-called esoteric sections of the now numerous Theosophical 
>Societies."  
>
>How does Robert Crosbie know this?  Does he have "inside" information?
>
>
>"Much of the instructions and communications in connection with the 
>Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society, and much regarding its 
>history, are necessarily of such a pledged or sacred character that they
>
>cannot be made public.  But enough is believed to be of public record to
>
>make possible a clear tracing of the lines of cause and effect for the
>
>benefit of all students, and definite indices for all who may come in 
>touch with the private papers of the Section."
>
>Who are the persons "who may come in touch with the private papers of 
>the Section"?  To what is Crosbie really referring?  Is Mr Crosbie 
>actually referring in a veiled way to the members of his own esoteric 
>school called by the name "The Dzyan Esoteric School"?
>
>"After her [H.P.B.'s] death in 1891, the Esoteric Section--now School 
>[the Second Section] -- was reorganized.  Mr. Judge was looked to and 
>accepted by all as the LINK between the School [2nd Section] and the 
>Masters [1st Section], and between the School [2nd Section]and the 
>Society [3rd Section].  It is clear in our minds that the last phrase of
>
>H.P.B.: 'KEEP THE LINK UNBROKEN; DO NOT LET MY LAST INCARNATION BE A 
>FAILURE,' *referred directly to Mr. Judge.*"  THEOSOPHY magazine, JUNE
>
>1915, page 371
>
>How does Mr Crosbie know all of this?  Even more importantly, what 
>happened to the LINK at Mr Judge's death?  In 1896 was the link finally
>
>broken?  Mr Crosbie doesn't directly tell us any of this information.
>
>Yet some four years later, in 1919, Mr John Garrigues declared in Mr 
>Crosbie's obituary in THEOSOPHY magazine---
>
>"Robert Crosbie preserved unbroken the link of the Second Section [the
>
>Esoteric School] of the Theosophical Movement from the passing of Mr. 
>Judge in 1896, and in 1907--just eleven years later--made that link once
>
>more Four Square amongst men.  In the year 1909 the Third Section was 
>restored by the formation of the United Lodge of Theosophists...." 
>THEOSOPHY magazine, Volume 7, page 289.
>
>In regards to the "Third Section" said to be restored by the formation
>
>of the U.L.T., Mr Crosbie had written four years previously---
>
>"The Theosophical Society as a whole---meaning thereby the 'Third 
>Section' of the original foundation---definitely broke off its 
>connection with the Masters at the period of the Coulomb conspiracy in
>
>1884-5. . . ."  "Theosophy," June 1915.
>
>Mr Garrigue goes on to make the following claims----
>
>"H.P. Blavatsky, as all know, was the Mother and Creator of the 
>Theosophical Movement of the nineteenth century. . . . [Concerning W 
>Judge] H.P.B.'s statements [are clear] that he was the Preserver of 
>Theosophy and the Heart and Soul of the Second [Esoteric] Section.  Upon
>
>her death Mr. Judge was compelled by the exigencies of the Movement to
>
>stand in her stead. . . ."
>
>"There is always one Witness on the scene.  After the death of Mr. 
>Judge, Robert Crosbie kept the link unbroken. . . .None at the time 
>suspected, and none has to this day suspected, that the quiet, earnest,
>
>steadfast man whose heart and soul were assimilated to the nature of 
>H.P.B. and W.Q.J. was to be in fact the agent for the regeneration of 
>the Theosophical Movement on the lines laid down from the beginning by
>
>the Masters.  H.P.B. was the Creator, W.Q.J. was the Preserver, and 
>Robert Crosbie was the Regenerator of pure Theosophy."
>
>This is quite an astounding claim made by Mr Garriques.  How did Mr 
>Crosbie keep "the link unbroken"?
>
>". . . The hints she [H.P.B.] gave in relation to Mr. Judge were not 
>grasped by the ambitious, the greedy for occult preferment. . . .The 
>hints Mr. Judge gave in regard to Mr. Crosbie were not perceived by 
>those whose only thought was their own advancement or their own 
>position.  After the death of H.P.B., Mr. Judge gave out such statements
>
>in regard to her nature and mission as, if taken, would have shown the
>
>students where to find the link of the Dzyan.  So, in like manner, after
>
>the death of Mr. Judge, Robert Crosbie gave out such statements in 
>respect of Mr. Judge as, if taken, would have preserved the unity of all
>
>the student body of Theosophists."
>
>". . . In the years from 1896 to 1906, Mr. Crosbie did what could be 
>done for those whose lack of discrimination placed them at the mercy of
>
>claimants and self-styled agents of the Masters.  Through the long roll
>
>of passing years he remained faithful and true without variableness or
>
>the shadow of turning, to Masters, Their Message and Their Messengers.
> 
>When the time of trial was over he found grateful and loyal comrades to
>
>hold up his hands in the gigantic task of restoring that which had 
>become lost and obscured.  The work [was] revivified in 1906 . . . ."
>
>From the above it is obvious that Mr Garriques is making special claims
>
>about Robert Crosbie as well as giving Mr Crosbie a very unique status.
> 
>These claims were believed in at least by the inner circle of the Los 
>Angeles U.L.T.
>
>Mr Garriques fails to tell his readers that between 1896 and 1904 Mr 
>Crosbie was one of those who also lacked discrimination and had placed
>
>himself at the mercy of one claimant, Mrs Katherine Tingley.  Mr 
>Garriques also fails to mention that during the years in question Mr 
>Crosbie had proclaimed his undying allegiance to Mrs Tingley, and had 
>defended her in the strongest of terms as the true & only successor to
>
>H.P.B. and W.Q.J.  But by 1915 Mr Crosbie was writing a very different
>
>history concerning H.P.B., W.Q.J. & K.T.  Mrs Tingley was no longer in
>
>the picture. And behind the scenes, various claims were being made by &
>
>about Mr Crosbie as the agent, as the link, etc. to the School of the 
>Masters.
>
>My completed paper will also chronicle Mr Crosbie's strong allegiance &
>
>defense of Mrs Tingley.  This information is very important when reading
>
>& evaluating what Mr Crosbie was claiming in the pages of "Theosophy" 
>magazine or what Mr Garriques et al would assert in their 1925 
>"Theosophical Movement" volume.
>
>David Green

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