Theos-Talk Archives (December 1998 Message tt00169)

SUBJECT:  Nicholas and Jerry on Jnanamudra

Jerry, thanks for your latest reply and the quote from Anne Carolyn Klein.  Yet
this quote didn't seem to answer the two questions related to what HPB, Nicholas
and you have written on elementals, etc.  I quote below those questions again.

Daniel


QUESTION 1

> >Daniel asked Jerry:
>
> >> >What is the source for Nicholas' idea about "the form of Jnanamudra is a
> >> >visualized goddess ie an elemental or deva that is sexually arousing"?
> >> >
> >> >And does Jerry agree with this idea of Nicholas?  Reasons?

>
> >Jerry replied:
>
> >> Yes. It is so described in the literature. BTW this works for women
> >> too--their jnanamudra would be an ideal man. The jnanamudra
> >> is said to be more than just a "visualization" although this is how
> >> it begins.

>
> >Daniel replies:
>
> >Jerry, you said that you agreed with Nicholas' idea about the visualized
> >goddess but Nicholas' definition also INCLUDES  the word "elemental".
> >Are you also agreeing with this part of Nicholas' definition?
>
> >BTW, what literature is THIS described in?  Only in what Leon would call
> >"Red Hat" literature? Or do we find similar descriptions in "Yellow Hat"
> >(Gelukpa) literature?

   QUESTION 2

>
> >Daniel asked Jerry:
>
> >> >And is Jananmudra as defined by Nicholas the same as what HPB writes
> >> >about as "carnal commerce with male and female Djins, Elementals, or
> >> >Demons"?  If not, what is the difference, etc.?
>
>
> >Jerry replied:
>
> >> I would hope that the difference between a Djin or elemental and
> >> one's own anima projection would be obvious. First we visualize.
> >> Then one's inner psychic feelings are projected into the visualization.
> >> Then one unites with or assimilated it into oneself. I see the Tibetan
> >> Jnanamudra exercise as a magical/religious version of Jung's
> >> psychological recognition, projection, & assimilation of anima or
> >> animus
>
> >Daniel comments:
> >
> >You say we *visualize*, then we project our *inner psychic feelings&.
> >Doesn't this involve kama-manas or thoughtforms, etc.?  And if this is
> >the case, aren't "elementals" involved?  Please consult what HPB and the
> >Mahatmas teach about elementals. Or do you disagree with them about this
> >too?
>
> >ALSO CONSULT THE THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY WHERE HPB WRITES ABOUT "KHADO"
> >(P. 177), DAKINI (P. 95), INCUBUS (P. 154).  Please COMPARE HPB's
> >definitions of these terms with Nicholas' definition:  "a visualized
> >goddess ie an elemental or deva that is sexually arousing".

Jerry, are HPB and Nicholas writing about the same kind of "entity"????  And are
you saying that your kind of visualization does NOT involve elementals or SUCH
elementals?