Theos-Talk Archives (November 1998 Message tt00498)

In a message dated 11/27/98 8:41:32 PM, Jerry S. wrote:

(LHM wrote)
>>The difference here is trying to learn about the actual mechanisms and
>>processes of these fields--how they actually work--rather than trying to
>>experience the higher consciousness itself--which can only lead to
>>individual self realization, but does not fulfill the goal of being a
working
>>"theosophist" whose ultimate purpose is:"to be in the true service of
>>humanity".  (See:  Declaration of the United Lodge of Theosophists -
>>http://www.ult.org/ )

(Jerry)
>I see no discrepancy between the goal as stated above and self-
>realization. In fact, I don't see how one can accomplish much
>toward the stated goal without self-realization first.

The three objects are to be practiced SIMULTANEOUSLY.  There is no "first"
this, then that.  Enlightenment comes about through a "synthesis" of all three
Natures-- Body, Mind and Spirit.

Study and practice requires no self-realization, but only "self devised and
self determined efforts. . . with the (correct) end and purpose in view".
Self realization, by itself, is not theosophy--nor is it the work and
fulfillment of the "Theosophical Movement".  If it were, why did HPB waste
millions of words on the Secret Doctrine with almost no mention of spiritual
practices?  That was left for each individual student to attain through
his/her own self devised and self determined efforts.  For that, she gave us
the Voice of the Silence, and pointed us to the Tao Te-Ching, the I-Ching,
Patanjali, the Dalai Lama and the whole Mahayana Buddhist Canon.  Remember,
the Secret Doctrine is the "Synthesis of Science, Religion and Philosophy"
Which comes first? -- the chicken or the egg?  Is the Universe empty or full?
Ask HPB.
>
>>The purpose of such study of the *processes* and *mechanisms* through which
>>our higher nature expresses itself, is so that eventually it can be
*proven*,
>>to ALL skeptical materialists, that the higher nature, as a spiritual field,
>>actually exists.   How else, can we "change the minds of the common people
of
>>the race--using the language of the age", as HPB advised--without first
>>convincing their gurus, the scientists, artists and writers of the age, of
the
>>truths of karma and reincarnation--based on the fundamental cyclic laws of
>>such fields.  Isn't that what the work of the theosophical movement is all
>>about?
>
>I certainly don't agree about the "proven" business, because
>I don't think you or I will ever "prove" anything except to ourselves.
>Remember, we don't agree on many things here on this list of
>Theoosphsts--so how will we ever hope to convince true skeptics?

You don't have to agree.  Nor do we have to prove anything.  And, there is no
such thing as a "true" skeptic when it comes to theosophy.  The phrase, "true
skeptics" is an oxymoron, since they have "opinions" only, based on airheaded
materialistic preconceptions.  The proof is in the pudding.  (in It's eating,
that is;-).  And this "pudding" was/is the proven modern "scientific"
theories, such as, "electro dynamics", "relativity" and "quantum dynamics"
which were derived from and (through confirmations therein) also "proves" all
that was written in the S.D. to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth.  (In this case, about the material world only).  We have yet to
prove our ABC theories that "scientifically" explain the fundamental laws on
the mental and spiritual planes.  But, they, too, are fully explained ("for
the intuitive student") in the S.D.  (Without such intuition, you might as
well study Dr. Suess :-)

Now, its up to those theosophists with scientific as well as intuitive minds
to study and improve a proposed theory that is based on the laws of cycles
(the root of karma and reincarnation), and that links the "fields" of the
material world with those of the astral, mental and spiritual worlds through
the medium of "consciousness".  Such a proposed theory can be studied at:
<A HREF="http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/";>(http://www.
tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/) </A>

And when that is accomplished, and a final theory results that satisfies all
the fundamental principles, as well as correlates with all current scientific
theories--experiments will be devised that will prove beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the conscious, intelligent universe, and all beings in it, consist
of a marriage of the fields ("in coadunition but not in consubstantiality")
that interact vibrationally between spirit, mind and matter. . .  And, which
act on all planes (analogously and correspondingly) in conformance with the
laws of cycles and periodicity--(and is NOT governed by the derivative laws of
modern or post-modern physics--which apply only within the space-time fields
of matter).

Such an irrefutable scientific proof will convince most "scientific
materialists" to change their views, and through them, the ordinary people who
follow them as "experts"--as they earlier followed Einstein, Bohr, and
Heisenberg, and now Bohm, Hawkings and Penrose. . .  All of whose theories, by
the way, confirm and follow the teachings in the S.D. (As far as the material
world goes.)

>>We can never convince any materialist (who influences this failing world
>>and puts us even further behind in evolution) of the realities of karma and
>>reincarnation, and thereby cause them to change their perceptions and
reverse
>>their selfish actions--by just talking about it to each other, or
experiencing
>>higher consciousness in meditation--without first learning to describe a
>>logical process that everyone can understand, and that is consistent with
>>all other scientifically proven theories.
>
>Hopefully it is the development of just such a "logical process" that
>we are currently working on here on this list (?). I suspect that we
>will first have to get Theosophists to agree on just what karma and
>reincarnationa re and how they work, before we will ever be able
>to convince skeptics.

How can the things talked about on this list have anything to do with
developing a "scientific theory" of universal "ACTION" which is the root and
cause of karma  and reincarnation?  Such a theory is already developed.  The
way to agree about how karma and reincarnation works is to study the
scientific principles--as clearly taught in the S.D.--that determine their
action.

Alleged theosophists who cannot agree on these ideas, just haven't studied the
Secret Doctrine deep enough, and are wasting the time of the members of the
forum with their wrong "opinions" based on no, or misinterpreted "facts".  So,
I suggest to those whom "the shoe fits" (and anyone else who wants to learn
some more)--to go to
<A HREF="http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/HPB-
ONHOWSTUD.SD.html">http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/HPB
-ONHOWSTUD.SD.html</A> and find out (from a direct student of HPB) how it
should be done.  Then really study the S.D., while you go back to the
<A HREF="http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/";>ABC</A> site
and similarly study the new correlative scientific information. . . And, then,
try to falsify or verify ABC in the S.D., as well as by "thought",
"introspection" or other "experiments"--both subjective and objective--as the
ancient Masters and Adepts have done, and as those intuitive scientists (who
cannot ignore it) are now trying to do.

Then--convinced yourselves--you can discuss in this forum how to convince the
rest of the world that "Universal Brotherhood is a law of nature"--as "proven"
by this theory (as well as the S.D). .  . And, then, with whatever small or
large part you can contribute, convince others, both theosophists and non-
theosophists. . .  And, thereby, help complete the work of the TM in this
cycle.  For that, HPB, WQJ, M and KH would be eternally grateful.  (Who knows?
We may someday, get the S.D. used as a "primer' textbook in college science
courses.)
>
>>The ultimate scientific conclusion in the SD is that everything in the
>>universe, from spirit to matter, and all their "forms" and "expressions",
>>are the result of vibrating fields of "electrical energies" whose causes and
>>effects are based on the fundamental laws of cycles and periodicity.  It
>>behooves us all, as theosophical "companions", to not only study and
"practice
>>the three "objects", but to also study those spiritual-scientific teachings
>>of HPB, "so as to be better able to help and teach others".
>
>While I fully agree with you here, how do you propose to "study"
>these things when we can't agree on what they are?

What things?  Karma and reincarnation are not "Things", nor are the laws of
cycles.  I've already told you how to study both what they are and how they
work--in three easy lessons (but with lots of concentrated, self devised and
self determined effort).  So, "Those that can will, and those that can't
won't", and "never the twain shall meet"--(except in Kama Loka, perhaps.:-).

Respectfully,

LHM