Theos-Talk Archives (November 1998 Message tt00469)

Theosophists:

The continued evidence that Darren has very little understanding of theosophy,
or even politics for that matter, doesn't want to learn, and is gullible
enough to believe every piece of anti-Semitic untruths or Nazi propaganda he
reads, some of which have been shown to be false years ago, makes discussing
this with him as useful as arguing with any fanatic who, caught up in his own
faulty thinking, constantly missing the point, can only counter argue by means
of non sequitur remarks, innuendo, sarcasm, and inflammatory statements, some
posed in the form of leading questions--with no verifiable facts to back them
up.  (He also "stole" my family mailing list and Spammed some of his garbage
to my grandchildren.)

So, I'll attempt to answer some of his more outlandish remarks, with the hope
that others here who see through his hypocrisies, and recognize him for the
Nazi-loving anti Semite and racist he probably is in his heart, will take up
the cudgel, and do a more thorough job.  It's either that, or we should
completely ignore and delete his letters on arrival.  (I'm a bit tired of this
stuff since, when I was with military intelligence during WW II, I heard
enough interrogations of captured Nazi's--who, in justifying their gas
chambers and ovens, used the same arguments as D--that it makes make me sick
to my stomach to hear it all over again.)  Maybe, I'm a little too touchy on
this subject. . . but I can't let him get away with the foul mouthed garbage
he is smearing in all our faces.

In a message dated 11/21/98 1:27:50 AM, D. Porter wrote (and didn't sign):

>Leon (are you a Leo - a double lion) wrote:

Not funny? If I leaned on you, your mind couldn't stand the heat.  Yes, I am a
"double Lion" born at 12:00 midnight on the cusp of fire and stone.  So, be
careful who you "play" with--especially if you're air, water, dust or a
"salamander" who cant stand the torch of truth.

>>Big deal!  It's easy to apologize for profanity. . . But that's just the tip
>>of the iceberg.  How come you don't apologize to the numberless Hebrew
>>people, both alive and dead  (some, possibly, your own ancestors) you
profaned
>>publicly with your false and unfounded accusations?
>
>In my understanding (and i've been wrong before) the Hebrew people are a
>race - of whom I have no probelm with as I have no probelm with any race of
>people - while Jews are religion - with a way of thinking that defines them
>as a group. Weren't the Jews responsible for genocide in the past? Or do
>the history books lie about everything?

Well, your "understanding" is wrong again.  (Seems like there's a pattern
there, bub.)  What history books are you talking about?  And if any religious
or ethnic group ever committed genocide, what has that to do with their
religion?  Were the Nazi's Jewish?  Or, the Serbs?  Or, the Mongols?

What do you know about the Hebrew religion and what "way of thinking" it is?
Maybe  you should study their "old testament", which is part of the Christian
bible, by the way (although many of them don't like to admit it) and find out
for yourself, instead of being brainwashed by the Nazi propaganda you seem to
be gobbling up and vomiting out indiscriminately.

Your talk about the "Hebrew or Jewish race" is exactly the line Hitler took.
For your information, the Hebrew religion and the Jewish religion are the same
thing, and the "Hebrews" are not a race, nor are the Jews a religion, but
simply a singular group of ordinary good and bad men and women (with a common
religious scripture) of mixed races, including Caucasian, Indo-European,
Semite, Hamite, Negro and other oppressed people who followed Abraham
(originally, A-brahm - if you know what that means in Sanskrit) out of
perpetual slavery as "untouchable" castes in India. . . Until, wandering
through Chaldea and other parts of the Euro-Asian continent, and learning all
the mysteries of Ahuru Mazda, they arrived in Egypt after capture as slaves by
the tyrant Pharaoh's armies, and put to work building Pyramids.   Eventually,
freed by Moses, (adopted son of Pharaoh and a high initiated priest exiled for
justifiably killing one of your Egyptian "Nazi" ancestors--who may have been
"yourself" in a previous incarnation;-), and given their "laws" and esoteric
teachings by him as a revelation from God to hold them together, they wandered
into Palestine and settled all over North Africa, until they were expelled by
the Babylonian Empire and then spread out all over the world. . .  Many of
them eventually converting to Christianity, by force, fear or greed, to
probably become yours, and even Hitler's ancestors.  Actually, they are
considered as "Hebrews" because their common oral and written intellectual and
spiritual language was Hebrew (which is a language, not a race, if you haven't
gotten that already).

As in all human groupings, of course, there are both good and evil people,
including communalists, humanists, self serving con men, revolutionaries,
anarchists, nazis, etc., including evil as well as moral and ethical priests,
rabbis or other leaders--Jews or otherwise. . . And, your condemning of a
whole group because of a few bad apples is the root of the kind of ignorant
prejudice which you seem to soak up and spew out like a rotting sponge.

If you want to talk your kind of know-nothing political, prejudicial, or other
anti this and that nonsense, why not try a KKK, Aryan Nation, Skinhead or
other anti-Semitic or racist conference.  I understand there are enough of
them on the Internet who will welcome your kind of propaganda with open arms.
And you can spew your hate doctrine there to your hearts content--without
trying to cover it up with phoney piety or meaningless and insincere apology.

>What accusations in particular are unfounded? The rebuilding of the temple?
>
>Does anybody remember the British Currency plunge instigated by one man -
>whom Dr. Mahatthir has named publicly?

Who can remember or correlate any of the sort of selective history that you
seem to think is so important in condemning a group, simply because you
presume, whether true or not, that it confirms your own distorted and already
prejudicial views?  So, what has the actions of one or few power seeking or
greedy members of any group got to do with the motives and actions of the
whole group?  If you were a Christian Catholic, should we hang you and all
other Catholics for all the people killed in wars caused by the Popes and
their greedy minions?  Or, how about throwing Protestant Christians to the
lions because of the market crash in 1929--(that incidentally contributed to
Germany's depression and  paved the way for Hitler)--caused by the market
manipulations of a group of Christian (WASP) as well as Jewish multi-
millionaire elitists and "robber barons"?  Or, maybe we should punish all
Italians for all the killings and misdeeds of the Borgias.

Besides, how do you know this guy is telling the truth.  Or, do you believe in
condemnation by accusation--as the Nazi's practiced?  Are you professing to be
policeman, judge, jury and executioner, all in one?

How many "Jews" do you think decided to rebuild the Temple (if that statement
is true)?  And, how does that justify your condemnation of an entire group
that had nothing to do with the decisions of their leaders.  Should we
exterminate all Germans for what their leaders, or their parents, did to the
Jews?  Besides, what business is it of yours what religious people do wih
their own temples--unless you have an ax to grind as member of an opposing
religion or political group?  If so, what's that got to do with theosophists
who are "members of no cult or sect, but members of each and all"?  And,
what's politics got to do with that?
>
>>What other ulterior motives do you have that you're so anxious to ingratiate
>>yourself in this forum by confessing to and asking for punishment for such a
>>minor crime as profanity?  Who do you think you're kidding?  Copping a plea
>>won't excuse you for the rest of your ignorant and hurtful remarks that
publicly >>condemnes a group for the machinations of a few.
>
>How would expulsion ingratiate me? I am totally willing to be banned if
>thats what everyone wants.

Theosophists don't expel or ban anyone.  Everyone knows that.  Besides, that's
no punishment for your real slanders.  So, who do you think you're kidding?
The "Ingratiation" was your phoney apology for a lesser offense--a smoke
screen to divert the discussion group from seeing you as you really are.  But,
judging by your remarks here and previously, You may not even be smart enough
for that kind of subterfuge--which would then lead me or anyone with any sense
to believe that you may be unaware of your own ignorance, and therefore, a
gullible fool, with an angry, anti-social, if not psychopathic streak (who
could easily be talked into becoming a concentration camp bootlicker by a
smart Nazi recruiter).  Or else, you are a young punk with little knowledge
and a big ego looking to impress his superiors or elders with his imagined
wisdom--which could be just a parroting of other deluded or intentionally evil
Nazi or other anti-social propagandists.
>
>>People who spew such a slick (or sick) line of Nazi propaganda as you did,
give
>>us little evidence that they can be trusted in whatever else they say or do.
Accordingly, I'd be especially suspicious of any other propaganda you forward
to these forums.
>
>What exactly was 'Nazi propaganda' ?

Everything you said here (and SPAM forwarded to others) about Jews, politics
and the American constitution and government.   Are you just acting dumb by
asking that question, or did I read you right in my last letter?  Such
evasions, are almost a sure sign that you may really be a sociopath who can't
recognize his own lack of conscience, and certainly a total ignoramus,
theosophically, who doesn't realize the bad karma he is making for himself by
defaming others publicly as a group--and avoiding responsibility for the harm
that causes when the young, ignorant or naive people read such garbage.  (e.g.
What reason did you have for stealing my personal mailing list and sending
your subversive propaganda, with thoughtless and conscienceless
indescrimination, to the several impressionable children on it?)  Even
Australia isn't far enough away for you to escape the karma you have
accumulated for that alone--not to mention your other, more direct, depraved
remarks to this and other forums.
>
>>in any event, continuing to try to turn theosophy into a political or
>>revolutionary movement to overthrow capitalism is just a waste of both your
>>and our time.  All it shows is that you have very little understanding of
both
>>the purposes of the theosophical movement or the teachings of
>>theosophy--(which will eventually overthrow capitalism and its evils and all
>>the other isms and their evils in it's own way, and in its own time--without
>>the use of politics, polemics, propaganda or force of any kind--which never
>>works).
>
>Agreed. Probably within the next twenty years - When the population can be
>counted on both hands, they'll all more than likely embrace the theosophical
>ideals.

Another dumb remark?   Okay, if that's what you predict (as the "sage" you
think you are) tell us how you are going to prevent it from happening--or is
your kind of revolutionary politics going to trigger the atomic war that could
cause it?   (Without killing off all the Jews first, that is.)  Do, you
realize how many times, in the last letters you wrote, you contradicted
yourself and stuck your foot in your mouth?  Do you think that makes us any
more likely to trust you in anything you say, do or proselytize?
>
>>  As a great theosophist, Buckminster Fuller once said, "You never can
>>change anything by fighting the existing.  To change something, build a new
>>model and make the existing obsolete."  There are many theosophists who are
>>working on building that new model. Maybe it would behoove you, if you want
to >>remain among them, to put aside your prejudices, and listen and study for
>>awhile until you begin to know what you are talking about.  Then maybe you
>>might be able to propose or join in some theosophical action to help change
the world-mind that makes some sense.
>
>I love bucky fuller but what about the French Revolution, The War of
>Independence, The Civil War?

You may say you love him, but for what reason?  You certainly don't understand
what he was talking about, and taught, since your remark indicates you didn't
get it at all--which confirms what I said earlier. . . That you haven't the
faintest idea what you're talking about--except as a rabble rousing anti-
government instigator and spouter of false rumors and outright lies, as well
as other insidious forms of Nazi, anarchist or Bolshevic propaganda.  And,
further, it's obvious that all your seemingly agreeable remarks are
"smokescreens" calculated to fool us into believing that you are really a
harmless friendly guy, when surreptitiously, you are trying to recruit people
into joining your destructive causes.

So, what about those wars?  You seem to be expert at mixing apples with
oranges.  And, why so defensive?  So, I must be right.  You are, apparently, a
revolutionary, an anti-Semite, probably also a racist, and here you are,
publicly talking about and spreading inflammatory propaganda about
overthrowing governments--which, incidentally, isn't very wise, the way the
FBI, the Secret Service and the CIA (with tight links with their counterparts
in AU) are lurking in all the chat rooms and online forums these days and
reading all your e-mail. (For all you know, I may even be one of them.  So,
take tip.  If you see a car outside your house, with an Aussie state police,
Secret Service or other government license plate, you might be smart to sneak
out the back door and take off for Borneo.  You may still be redeemable and we
wouldn't want you to get hurt.;-)

Bucky, who, incidentally, was both my teacher and a friend, would turn over in
his grave if he knew someone who "speaks with a forked tongue", as you do, was
one of his fans.  If you are not a dyed in the wool pathological
revolutionary, you might be very young and have had a deprived and abused
childhood, for which you would be very angry against all authority.  If so, I
feel very sorry for you and would like to help you resolve your problems.
>
>>Remember, Buddha said, "Everything we are is the result of what we have
>>thought--and everything we will become is what we are now thinking."
>
>>Your kind of angry, blind, destructive thoughts are what made this world
>>what it is in the first place.  You would be wise to change them into
>>something more theosophically constructive.  Overthrowing a system
>>forcibly never can change the minds of those that formed that system.
>>So, how long does it take for it to rear its head again--even stronger
>>than before?
>
>We should forgive our neighbour 7 times.

Once is enough.   But, again, what has this sarcastic non-sequitur got to do
with the statement you think you are responding to.  Such an answer makes the
advice given above even more appropriate.  And, it also leads us to believe
that my original observations about your character are entirely true.
>
>>Capitalism, today, has become no different in its motivation (with the
>>same elitist people behind it) than the fascism and Nazism it forcefully
>>overthrew yesterday--except it's a lot stronger militarily,
>>and its dirty tricks a bit more sophisticated.  You play right into their
>>hands with their divide and conquer philosophy that always looks
>>for a "scapegoat" so as to pit one faction against another.
>>Wise up and start thinking like a mature human being who
>>understands that Universal Brotherhood, the first object of the
>>theosophical movement, means just what it says and really is a
>>fundamental "law of nature" that eventually will win out in the end.
>
>Taken on board

What does that mean?  To me it just appears to be another one of your
meaningless cop outs.  Apparent acquiescence--without any commitments.
Another sneaky "smokescreen"?  Again, who do you think you are fooling?
(However, if you really mean it and would change your ways, I would take all
that back, and help you as best I can.)
>
>>With all good wishes,
>>Leon Maurer
>
>And to you

How can anyone believe that?

(And, now we could say, he begins a "reverse play"--to change the subject and
get in some more propaganda for his Nazi mentors or "controllers?")
>
>But before I go - I have been doing research into anti-semitism to find out
>why it is that these people are constantly throughout history made the
>scapegoats. I found an excellent article at : >http://home.ican.net/~jgold/

(Note the keywords, "these People" -- right out of Mein Kampf.  Also, note how
he takes a single case to infer a generality.  How obvious can this guy get?)

>An Interloper's Contribution to the Debate:
>
>Reactions to the Holocaust
>(A l'intention des participants au XVIII Congres
>des Sciences Historiques, Montréal, 1995)
>
>I suggest anybody really interested in History read this, it is
>fascinating, it explains how anti-semitism found a foot-hold in germany.
>
>Basically it revolves around a public speech given by a Zionist Council
member
>before World War I that contained this phrase -in the coming world war"
>
>Think about that for a bit.

So what?  And, who says?  A real historian would say you were "barking up a
tree"--looking at "hearsay" as evidential proof.  Anti-semitism got its
foothold in Germany when Hitler and his anti-Semitic backers came to power.
It was all there--in Mein Kampf and with the "Brothers of the Golden Dawn", as
well as Crowley and his elitist crowd in England--long before.  It had nothing
to do with Zionism, which was originally founded because of anti-Semitism and
"pogroms" in Europe, and Russia that started long before World War 1--as far
back as the 18th century and earlier.  Maybe you aught to read some real
history.

>Henry Ford, heard of this speech and found a published transcript which he
>later used in conjunction with the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' to
>publish an article entitled ' The International Jew '.

And for the possibly innocent, if not wisely prophetic remark of ONE man,
coupled with a false belief in a proven forged propaganda document, along with
a few psychopathic liars with axes to grind, plus a cabal of war mongering
munitions makers and Nazi sympathisers--are you now implying that you condone
the actions of those other long time anti-Semite, strike busters like Henry
Ford, Adolph Hitler, Rosenberg, and Gold (a possible stooge of HPB's Jesuit
enemies and boot licker to a Pope who made a concordance with Hitler)--in
condemning a whole group of innocent people and, thereby, justify the pushing
of millions of them, including their children and elderly--who were useless as
slave labor--in gas chambers and ovens?

If so, and if that doesn't label you as a potential Nazi murderer, slaver and
a full blown sociopath, as well as an ignorant and dangerous, rabble rousing
revolutionary, it certainly would indicates that you are a conscienceless
anti-Semite who is trying to weasel your way into being accepted as a
political pundit by members of the theosophical  movement--who has been
dealing with your types of villainous hypocrites for a long long time.  They
all remember Leadbeater and Annie Besant, who stole the theosophical Society
from HPB and WQJ and turned it, for quite some time, into a parody of
Christianity and, "do nothing to upset the applecart" type of elitest
thinking.  Is it any wonder why the spiritually enlightened Krishna Murti
refused their offer to introduce him as the new Christian savior and "Son of
God"?

So, you are not fooling anyone. . . Leastwise, an old war horse like me, who
knows that wars are started by munitions manufacturers and violence prone
strike breakers like Henry Ford, along with ego maniacs like Adolph Hitler
(and their dupes and stooges like you)--and not wise old Jews who make honest
predictions about them.  So come off it.  Everything you say labels you for
what you are.  For, as we say in theosophy, "You shall know them by their
fruits"--and yours are pretty rotten and smelly--according to the examples in
your statements and your references, and the way you sneakily disseminate
them.

So, either wise up and sincerely change your mind and your attitude, join the
theosophical discussions with honest interest in learning or teaching
something truthful and worthwhile, or quit your disruption of our forums--get
lost, and stop wasting our time and energy with all this ignorant, self
serving nonsense that has nothing to do with any theosophical truths or
realities.

With continued good wishes for your redemption, if possible, and with hope
that you may yet become awakened and wise in your words and actions for the
benefit of ALL humanity--"without distinction of race, creed, sex, condition
or organization". (See: "United Lodge of Theosophists Declaration" --
http://www.theosophycompany.org/declar.html)

Leon