Theos-Talk Archives (October 1998 Message tt00016)

Oct 4th 1998

Dear Mark:

Thanks		comments interjected below

Dallas

> From: Mark Kusek
> Sent:	Sunday, October 04, 1998 12:48 AM
> Subject: Re: "Spiritual culture" answering some inquiries

Hi Dallas,

W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote:

> Oct 2nd 1998
>
> Dear Mark
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> I believe that "crossing the Abyss" has a special meaning for
> some students.  But I have not met it as an expression in the
> writings of HPB.  The abyss needs definition.
>
> Do you mean perhaps the passage from
>
> 1. the realm of forms and personality - of selfishness and the
> desire for personal gains during this one life we are familiar
> with,  to
>
> 2. the realm of impersonality, idealism, virtue, generosity,
> assistance, universality and permanence, etc  ?

No.
I'll leave the exposition of the "Abyss" to Jerry (and Alan) as
they are
wont to use it. This is abstract stuff.
It's a Kabbalistic term.You'd have to research HPB's view on
Kabballa to
fit it into your view.

DALLAS	understood

===============================



I was responding more directly to your statement about
selfishness. I
don't see selfishness solely in a pejorative sense. To me it also
defines the de facto state of waking experience in the lower
quaternary.
Because of identification with the seeming integrity of these
elements,
or aggregates as Buddhists call them, which develops as a result
of the
normal course of living in a society in the physical world, we
become
"personalities." This identification is as "one among many." It
is
completely natural, has a temporal and social context to it and
so also
has as a defining characteristic, a sense of separation, illusory
as it
may be. This is the "normal" state of affairs in the waking
world.
Regardless of any social context that seeks to measure its moral
qualities, it is essentially "selfish" in the sense that it
defines its
own boundaries by a perceived sense of "self" and others. This is
the
"personality" locus or the "Personality Ray."

Dallas, you are IT, when you're being "Dallas," and I'm IT when
I'm
being "Mark." N'cest pa?

=====================

OUI, C'est vrai.


That's what I was trying to say. It's more or less stating the
obvious.
My position is just a matter of including this de facto view as
well as
any social pejorative one.

DALLAS

Understood - when embodied and in the waking state the personal
consciousness is selfish and isolated  -- the "aggregates" or
"samskaras /skandhas" as I understand it are those "Monads" upon
which we have imposed either our thought, feeling or will, and
therefore become for a longer or shorter time (under Karma)
"attached" to us as a center.

As I understand it the Buddhistic and also the Theosophical
approach to this situation is to try to harmonize all karmic
links so as to become an impersonal force for good alone - in
other words "to become karma-less."

I would also observe that "Consciousness" per se is in itself
separate from any state that "we" may be in, and consequently is
a unitary "thread of being" on which or in which, all experience
is recorded and seen.

======================================


The statement about a "messiah complex" refers to those people
who, in
the course of their spiritual and moral development, sometimes
assume a
subtle sense of superiority or elitism. It's typical of the zeal
of
recent converts, where they feel a need to evangelize, "save"
others or
tell everybody what they've experienced or learned. They  often
pass
through a phase where they consider themselves somehow, not
entirely
"personal" anymore (while they yet maintain, or are forced to
maintain,
when they wake each morning, the very mechanism which defines
it). It is
sometimes supported by their group affiliation. No doubt there
are
alchemical adjustments happening intra-psychically. I just find
their
subtle sense of denial mildly amusing. They usually have an
experience
of their own limitations soon enough and can get very confused,
frustrated and humbled when faced with the obvious fact that they
are
still, all too human. It's a delicate time, but indicative that
an inner
process of spiritual transformation has begun.

Somehow, a contact has reached the fringes of the conscious
personal
field from deeper within it and is actively restructuring core
identity
patterns and referents. An active and experiential mystery
expresses
ITSELF in the very core of personality. Esoterically, this
corresponds
to the Christian initiation of "Baptism," or rebirth by the
"descent" of
the Holy Spirit into a person. "Descent into" is perceived by the
recipient as an mystic ontological illumination from within the
core of
their sense of conscious personal identity. They are "reborn in
Christ,"
by this mystic Presence of the Spirit (or LOGOS) now consciously
informing (and transforming) the identic reality of who "THEY
ARE".
"Boom," a light turns on, a sun (Son) appears in the darkness
within
"you," and "IT's" gravity now makes "you" orbit and relate to
"IT,"
instead of the previous sense of the integrity of personality
with
unconscious darkness at it's core that used to be the center of
conscious identification. I don't know any other way to say it
except
perhaps with poetry or symbols.


DALLAS

I understand what you say and mean - and I would agree that in
some cases it can become another state of selfishness with the
added confusion of thinking that one is important, and with
enthusiasm one starts off doing things without truly apprehending
the ultimate consequences - perhaps one might characterize this
with the "dangers of a little knowledge."

On the other hand it is better to try to do some good, however
limited one's perspective than to become inert.


>
> The "spiritual" union that preserves individuality happens at
the
> level > of the Causal Body. The higher initiations eventuate in
the
> dissolution > of the Causal vehicle.
>
> DALLAS
>
> Well it is a good idea to see how this is defined.  On p. 74 of
> the THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY,  HPB defines it as, in part :
>
> "This "body" which is no body either subjective or objective,
but
> BUDDHI, the Spiritual Soul...is the direct cause of Sushupti
> condition leading to the Turya state, the highest state of
> Samadhi.  It is called KARANOPADHI [ see SD I 157,  KEY 121-2,
> 136 ] "the basis of the Cause," by the Taraka Raj
Yogis...Buddhi
> alone could not be called a "Causal Body," but becomes so in
> conjunction with Manas, the incarnating Entity or EGO."  T.
Glos,
> p. 74

OK. A lot of fancy sounding foreign words. What do they mean to
your
experience?


DALLAS

Their only value is to show that those concepts were known and
current in antiquity - an antiquity of study of which Theosophy,
Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism , etc., etc. are all
parts.

Since Theosophy was "recorded" for many peoples with various
historical antecedents, this may mean more to them than to us
with our limited Euro-American education.  We may have to meet
and discuss matters with others who have their own antique
backgrounds - this can give us the facility of dealing with them
with greater ease if we know those ideas and words.

==============================================

> I do not see, logically, how "higher initiations ( Of what
kind,
> where ? ) would cause the dissolution of the "Causal body."  If
> anything they would tend to spiritualize and reinforce it in
the
> scheme that HPB describes.

Yes, for a while, however long that cycle of necessity is. But
then
something else happens and it may or may not be perceived as
logical.

Think of it this way. When the long cycles of experience in the
world of
incarnation have developed in you the capacity to be conscious on
that
Causal level, you eventually experience a naturally ordained
"initiation' whereby the locus of your consciousness shifts to
establish
the sense of identity there. To put it metaphorically, you become
transfigured as "the Anointed" or "the Christ."  Your fundamental
sense
of identity is changed.

Then, after cycles of experience and action from that state, and
the
concomitant aspiration for union with "THAT which is still higher
and
ALL that is ONE with THAT"  (remember Jesus always said things to
the
effect of "If you see me, you see Him who sent me," "I and my
Father are
one," and The Father worketh hitherto and I work, etc.") there
eventuates the capacity of conscious experience or identification
with
the Monad (the Father which is in Heaven"). Another naturally
ordained
experience and shift of the locus of conscious identification
occurs.


DALLAS

I am in agreement with what you describe.

=======================================

These higher initiations are a process in which the "Christ"
ascends to
the "Father." This is all metaphoric in Christian terms, but the
effect
of this esoterically is said to be the dissolution of the Causal
body
and absorption of consciousness into the Monad. This is not to
say that
the Monad ever loses the capability to vibrate, create the
vehicle at
will and descend again to appear, experience or work on the
Causal
level. The Monadic Ray consciousness is just now beyond the
necessity
for it.

Just as some of the Masters are said to exist on inner planes and
to no
longer need to incarnate physically, so too, at higher
initiations, the
consciousness of the Monadic ray no longer needs to hold the
locus of
identity on the Causal level to exist. It has gained/merited the
shift
of experience to the higher consciousness of the Monad per se.
It, as a
"separate" individuality disappears. The characteristic that
defines the
mayavic state of individuality (i.e., the Causal vehicle or true
EGO) is
dissolved. Full cycle return.

The monad is One. It is not "one among many." Monas Monadum. The
Monad
of Monads. This is a total Mystery.

You're literal devotion to the letter of HPB is often laudable,
but can
also become an impediment to the conscious experience of the
Mystery of
identity within you. The result of faith in the "letter of the
Law" is a
continual sustenance of the separating experience of self (you)
and
other (the Monad You Are). Necessary for a season, perhaps, but
always
carrying with it this conditional limitation. When Jesus was on
the
cross crucified, there was a moment when he let go, so to speak.
It is
the part of the Gospel where he says "my God, my God, why has
thou
forsaken me?" Without that experience of being totally "alone,"
and
detaching from an identification as "other," he could not
experience the
initiation whereby he becomes "All-One."  It is said to be the
moment of
complete and utter abandonment. These are the sequence of higher
initiations I was referring to.

There are several books in Theosophical literature that detail
these
esoteric interpretations of Mystic Christianity. They might be
helpful
to you or provide another point of view to supplement your
considerable
erudition and understanding. Maybe you're already familiar with
them.


And thanks to you too.  There are here more points of agreement
than otherwise.

Dal

=====================================

Regards,
Mark