Theos-Talk Archives (September 1998 Message tt00187)

Dallas,

Are you interested in doing the experiment I outlined below in order to
ascertain how much editing was done to HPB's writings in the 3rd volume
of the SD (published 1897)?

Daniel


Graye/Caldwell wrote:
>
> I first quote below part of what Dallas wrote and then follow that with
> my own detailed comments.
>
> Daniel
>
> W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote in part:
>
> > Dear Daniel:
> >
> >                 Re:  3RD  VOLUME of the SECRET DOCTRINE
> >
> > I have carefully read your article when you originally published
> > it and sent it to me.
> >
> > The one aspect that is unclear and, to me, important is:
> >
> > How much did Mrs. Besant (whom Mr. Mead says was solely
> > responsible for its editing) change and edit it from what HPB
> > wrote ?
> >
> > Yes, it is based on those unedited and unprinted MSS that HPB had
> > in her possession.  But if those have been changed and altered as
> > the "Third and Revised EDITION of 1893" was, how can we depend
> > absolutely on them ?
> >
> > This 3rd and Revised EDITION (not Volume) is shown to contain
> > about 40,000 alterations from the original 1888 edition (the
> > original) as published.  A number of student are of the opinion
> > that the "ORIGINAL EDITION OF 1888" contains certain codes, and
> > some of those are dependent on the phrasing and the
> > capitalization and the actual words that HPB and the Masters used
> > in that book.
> >
> > If that concept is thrown aside, then the "3rd VOLUME can be
> > considered as possibly authentic in INTENT, but not as to
> > CONTENT.  In other words it may not be consistent with the
> > ORIGINAL MSS that HPB had left.
>
> ..................
>
> > The content and statements made in some of the articles published
> > by Mrs. Besant as part of the "THIRD VOLUME OF THE S D " do not
> > closely dovetail (in my esteem) with statements made and
> > orthography used in the ORIGINAL 1888 S D, and in several of her
> > articles published after that date.  It is therefore difficult
> > for me to agree to use those as a basis for presenting original
> > Theosophy and its doctrines.
> >
> > In other words they show a peculiar lack of cohesiveness and
> > continuity with those statements and teachings she made in those
> > writings she actually EDITED HERSELF.  Now it may be argued that
> > these are minor and perhaps they are also insignificant.  However
> > they do represent a DIFFERENCE.  So in my eyes I have set them
> > aside as having been tampered with.
> ...............................
>
> > If HPB had edited and published that 3rd Volume, then, OK.
> > However the contents of that 3rd VOLUME, as I say above show an
> > incohateness that I find troubling.  And I can only speak for
> > myself and my studies.
>
>
> Dallas,
>
> Thanks for your comments.  But can we try to TEST some of your
> statements in order to clarify and actually determine how much editing
> was done to HPB's text in SD Volume III?  Can we devise a test to either
> verify or falsify these statements made?
>
> Let's do an experiment.
>
> Go to Volume III of the SD:
>
> Read Section XXIII (23) titled:  "What the Occultists and Kabalists Have
> to Say."
>
> And
>
> Read Section XVII (17) titled:  "Apollonius of Tyana".
>
> Now in your statements quoted above, you say among many things:
>
> > If HPB had edited and published that 3rd Volume, then, OK.
> > However the contents of that 3rd VOLUME, as I say above show an
> > incohateness that I find troubling.  And I can only speak for
> > myself and my studies.
>
> Okay, after having read the above 2 sections from Vol. III, do you find
> "an incohateness" in these two sections?    If you find such, please
> state an example or two illustrating what you find TROUBLESOME in these
> 2 sections.
>
> Now let us do the second part of the experiment.
>
> On Dec. 10, 1886, Colonel Olcott (in India) received a package from HPB.
> This package contained the MSS copy of Volume I of the SD (part of what
> is now called the Wurzburg MSS).
>
> 18 days later [on Dec. 28, 1886], Colonel Olcott comments publicly on
> this MSS:
>
> ". . . the entire MSS. of the first . . . [volume] . . .that Madame
> Blavatsky is now writing upon the Secret Doctrine, is in my hands. . .
> ."
>
> This MSS in Colonel Olcott's hands contains the above two articles which
> you have hopefully read:
>
> (1)  What the Occutlists and Kabalists have to say
>
> and
>
> (2)  in 2 parts:  "Who was the Adept of Tyana?" and "The Roman Catholic
> Church Dreads the Publication of the Real Life of Apollonius."
>
> This 1886 Volume 1 became Volume 3 sometime in the summer of 1887,
> according to Bertram Keightley's testimony.  Bertram writes:
>
> "Finally we laid before her a plan, suggested by the character of the
> matter itself, viz., to make the work consist of four volumes....
> Further, instead of making the first volume to consist, as she had
> intended, of the history of some great Occultists, we advised her to
> follow the natural order of exposition, and begin with the Evolution of
> Cosmos, to pass from that to the Evolution of Man, then to deal with the
> historical part in a third volume treating of the lives of some great
> Occultists; and finally, to speak of Practical Occultism in a fourth
> volume should she ever be able to write it.
>
> This plan was laid before H.P.B., and it was duly sanctioned by her."
>
> So Volume I became Volume III.  THIS REARRANGEMENT OF THE VOLUMES IS THE
> KEY TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS CONTAINED IN VOLUME III (1897).  This key
> has been overlooked by almost all Blavatsky students during the last 80
> years.
>
> And in April 1888, Madame Blavatsky herself tells the T.S. American
> Convention:
>
> "The MSS. of the first three volumes is now ready for the press." (CW 9:
> 247).
>
> The 2 above named sections became part the third volume MSS.  AND THEY
> THEN SHOW UP IN 1897 IN THE THIRD VOLUME OF THE SD.  For details see my
> paper http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/sdiiimyt.htm
>
> Now back to the 1886 MSS.  The 1886 MSS version of these 2 sections
> under discussion were finally published for the public to read. See:
>
> Theosophist, April, May and June, 1933
> Theosophist, October and November, 1933
>
> In COMPARING the Wurzburg 1886 version with the Volume III 1897 version,
> one will see that there are changes and some additions to the 1897 text,
> but the changes appear quite trivial and the meaning in both versions
> appear similar if not identical.  And it is quite possible that HPB made
> many of these changes as she was working on this third volume MSS in the
> months *before her death*.
>
> It is this kind of testing (and research) that will show the openminded
> student that Volume III (1897) contains the material intended to be part
> of that volume by HP Blavatsky herself.  By doing ADDITIONAL comparisons
> of the Wurzburg version with the 1897 version, the student can determine
> the amount of editing that was probably done, etc. etc.
>
> I hope you see the purpose of the testing and what point(s) I'm
> attempting to convey.  If not, please let me know and I will try to
> explain it better.
>
> Daniel Caldwell