Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00196)

Nicholas asked:

> >What would you accept as "reliable evidence"?
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Chuck answered:

> I would accept a case study where it could be proven that celibacy does have
> results that non-celibats cannot acheive.  The fact that there is no celibate
> in the christian tradition that has done anything not duplicated by non-
> celibates pretty much leaves that one out. (Protestants can match anything the
> Roman Catholics have done and they do not honor celibacy in any way.  >It is, in fact, looked upon as a spiritual perversion).
>
> All I am hearing is blind assertions and argument by authority, neither of which constitute reliable proof.
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Daniel Caldwell replies:

But as far as I can tell, Chuck, you too are only giving
"blind assertions and argument by authority [sounds like YOUR
AUTHORITY]."    Where is your reliable proof?

An example of YOUR "blind assertions and argument by authority" is to be
found in your very next post which I repeat below:

>Wrong.  Conscience is something created by social conditioning for the >purpose of making the individual fit in with their society.  Other than >that it serves no purpose whatsoever.

>As to the role of it in other aspects of life, I might point out the >example of a man who had no conscience about killing whatsoever and yet >was a very talented artist, a brilliant writer and attained >enlightenment in a single lifetime, the Japanese Sword Saint Musashi >who killed at least 60 men in single combat and wrote one of the best >tactical manuals around.

>The idea that the universe is responsive to any human value system is >an absurdity and any idea that it would actually care about individual >human behavior is laughable.

Chuck, as far as I can see, you have not given any evidence (reliable or
unreliable) to back up any of these statements.  Your statements look
like mere ASSERTIONS to me.  Maybe you have good reasons, good evidence
for the above assertions but you haven't produced them here on
theos-talk.  Where's the beef?

Concerning Japanese Sword Saint Musashi, how do you know that he
actually attained "enlightenment"?  What kind of "enlightenment" are you
talking about?  Etc. Etc.  Didn't Saint Elizabeth Claire Prophet also
attain "enlightenment" in one of her former lives?  : )

Please give us some reliable evidence for your assertions.  If not,
you're in the same boat as the one you claim Nicholas and company are
in.

Also your description of the "case study" is downright vague.  Could you
please define in some detail what you mean by "results"?  DETAILS ARE
ESSENTIAL and you don't give any.

Cheers.