Theos-Talk Archives (July 1998 Message tt00208)

Allan writes in #336:

>Thank you for telling me who he is.  Do you see how the
>human mind struggles to
>comprehend anything outside of a hierarchy?This entire
>alternate universe is
>constructed of hierarchies and most "spiritual" doctrines
>or works go into details
>of this hierarchy and talk of development through them. 
>Funny that isn't it?
>Do you see how difficult it is for people to conceive of
>the Parabrahman has
>having a ever existing self image/images and thereby
>allowing the possibility of
>and ever existing person of God, not having arisen from
>the Parabrahman but being
>an Eternal Integral "part" of it?   I use the word part but
>there is no REAL
>difference between any of the eternal self referrals and
>the  Parabrahman.
>Experience of the Parabrahman as all expansive divine
>energy is the least of the 3
>major spiritual realizations.  At this stage you are only just
>touching the edge
>of reality.  Try throwing away your time conditioning for a
>few minutes and then
>try throwing away "this gives rise to that" etc.  It you
>manage this you might
>find you come to a timeless non begot state.  In this state
>you may if you try
>long enough and hard enough, experience the
>Parabrahman directly.  If you do,
>centre yourself in the experiencer of the state (your I) and
>if you are
>successful, you will feel that you and the Parabrahman
>are made of the same stuff
>that qualitfely you and "it" is the same.  However though
>you have an sense of
>eternal expansion, slowly you will be aware of other "I" in
>this state and you
>will begin to notice that the Parabrahman is like a great
>ocean that you are
>swimming in, and it is moving through you.  Fix the
>consciousness in the "I" and
>realizing this the true identity of your self/soul/spirit  will
>be clear to you.
>At this stage of inquiry into the self the "Super soul" or
>manifestation of the
>divine as "Para Atma" will appear.  Now you will see the
>connecting web of your
>"I" with the Divine "I" of parabrahman that exists within
>each living being.  With
>this knowledge you can then inquire of the highest state
>from the Para Atma.   You
>will then go beyond the veil of the  Parabrahman into the
>Eternal Ever Existing
>Spiritual Sky and Worlds.  There you will find all the self
>referring
>personalities and forms of the Parabrahman or Absolute,
>that have NO BEGINNING.
>At that juncture you will KNOW without doubt that at the
>last you are HOME, and
>that the value of anything else you have thought or done
>is only of value by
>bringing you to this ultimate point.
>Allan

_________________________

         Allan:   You have many interesting ideas (Are we
supposed to be blessed with your wonderful presence
here, which is the idea I keep getting....)  and I don't doubt
they arise from a spiritual experience or state - But IMHO
you are "Head-Tripping"  or going on that wild conceptual
ride that is possible on a certain level of mind and
hightened energy.  Of course, we try to put logical handles
in terms of "heirarchies," etc. that are beyond our scope,
but one has to form some road map, and such systems are
the best we can do from here.
       You could be debated on many of these concepts -
for instance my interpretation of "Parabrahman" is that it is
NEVER experienced by any being because it is only a
conceptual handle for the great and forever retreating
Unknown and infinity  -   but I don't think it is fruitful to do a
Dharma Battle and don't want to. To each his own...
       Also, I think in one of the initiations or spriritual
experiences - one completely looses his sense of
Inidividuality and of course the wee wee little personality in
the process - and is lost in the great ALL.  (Geez, a dog's
consciousness would get utterly lost/destroyed if it ever
even experienced our dinky little human  consciousness  -
so I supposed we would get squashed in just experiencing
the next level up - let alone Parabrahman.)

SUFFERING:   Didn't G. de Purucker say somewhere that
it is possible to develop and learn without suffering?  Welll,
it may be possible, but it certainly doesn't usually happen
that way.

-   Jake J.