Theos-Talk Archives (July 1998 Message tt00182)

> From: "Daniel H Caldwell" <blafoun@azstarnet.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:47:41 -0700
> Subject: A Request to Allan
>
> No one should assume that their point of
> view is clear as mud to everyone else.

You are right of course.  Mine clearly isn't and I can't explain it any clearer
than I have.

>
>
> For those interested in following up on
> your views, can you recommend any good
> books on the subject?  The view you
> give is well known in India and there
> are books on Indian mysticism that
> expound on what you have written.
> Can you give us a few titles that
> show the pro and con concerning
> the view you are advocating?

Yes the view is well known in Indian but perhaps I dreamed that up fact up as well.

I would suggest material detailing the life of Lord Caitanya, the Isoipanisad and
the Brahma Samhita.
All three of these are sold by ISKCON.  My views are broadly in line with theirs
but I find them dogmatic, non yogic and they appear to have little comprehension of
higher states of mind.  Notwithstanding this, I have found some of their material
extremely helpful.

However if you want books to explain my entire position, I am afraid I will have to
write my own because my position has not been created by the words of others but
from my own life, memory, spiritual practise and experience.

I understand that from the Theo point of view, I am just a nut.


> Allan



>
>
>
>
> From: "Jake Jaqua" <barkus23@aol.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:32:41 -0400
> Subject: Buddha
>
> Allan:
>         Thanks for the comments. You have an expansive
> concept-structure and I wonder how you verify it to
> yourself, as it seems something "cooked up" to me...

Fine.

>  It
> might interest you to know that Theosophical Doctrines (In
> Purucker, at least, probably in Blavatsky somewhere...)
> hold that *Existence* is consisted of a series of
> "Absolutes" and that this whole reality of seven or twelve
> planes, is a manifestation or "inferior" to another superior
> hierarchy - and this goes on ad infinitum - Parabrahman,
> the great ever ungraspable ALL.

I understand every word of the above.  Of particular interest is the way the
"absolute" has been compartmentalised and limited by the above states.  Must come
from a pretty advanced mind that.

       Also, you can do what you like, but I think the use of the word "personal"
and "God" are perhaps inappropriate

> for the elevated meaning you give to them.

If people have a problem with these "words" even after explanation, the problem is
theirs not mine.

>  The usual
> meaning of these words are much more mundane, and
> there is great inertia to understand them as such.

Not my problem.

> Theosophy holds that The Buddha is the most advanced
> human this race has  produced, and also not in Nirvanna,
> but still here. I see you regard yourself as superior to
> Buddha,

I didn't say that and I don't think that.  Am I now being asked to fall for the
same  doens't mean  things he did.

> which makes me regard you a cosmic nut case.

Fine.  If you don't understand what I am saying you would think that wouldn't you.

> That higher level prana does have its effect doesn't it!
> You'd probably find Purucker interesting.

Who the hell is he?

>                                                      -  Jake J.
> "Buddhi is good enough for me!"

I have no problem with that Jake.  You can think and do precisely what you like,
it's no skin off  my nose.

Allan.

>
>
> From: "Kym Smith" <kymsmith@micron.net>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:46:14 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: A plea from someone getting jelly-brain
>
> .
>
> Allan, I suggest you respond to anyone you want at any time.  You needn't
> wait to be directly addressed. . .butting into the middle of conversations
> is part of life and just plain great fun.  Some conversations need busting
> into. . ..
>
> Not on your nelly Kym.  I have put forward a point of view that whilst it is
> being dumped on, has not been considered or challenged in any philosophical way.
> Now I am expected to back everything up with books.  I am certainly not going to
> rest on the words of any author or any book.  Spirituality, progression is a
> matter of doing, not book reading.  For I know the writers might have made it all
> up.  The view I put forward is well known in India  as one theos writer at least
> is aware.

Some books are listed above but don't get the impression I support any of them
wholly.

Thanks for your support Kym.


Allan.

>

>

>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Let me break from replying to you for a minute and ask again about the
> reading you have done.
>
> I am fascinated with the book which you claimed to contain information
> which has proved valuable to you in living.  (I can't even pronounce the
> name yet) and was wondering if you perhaps could quote a little from this
> book The Thirumandiram by Thirumooler.  Can you tell me a little of the
> book's background.  When was it published?  What country is the author
> from?   Did Kriya Yogis give comments on this book?
>
> "The King of Elflands Daughter" by Lord Dunsany.

This a novel, that I read years ago.  I will hunt it out and get back with the
publishers.

One of my favorites is the Brahma Samhita.
In recent history, I would consider Caitanya Mahaprabu the clearest exponent of
personalist philosophy.]

> The above are sold by ISKCON. They have centers all over the world.
>
>
> >
> >>
>
> Anyway this is the idea.  Please let's pause here again as there is
> something I would like to ask you again.
> When you achieve liberation from this world, will you still connect with
> the lives in this world in order to instruct them or give benefits to them
> or will all contact with this universe end?

All contact with this universe ends.  We have nothing more to do with it and we
never return.There is no requirement to instruct or give benefits because this is
handled firstly by God and secondly by the way the system is set up.

>
>
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >But I can't see this if we have a ever existing perfect vehical for our
> "self" in the supernal world?  Although I can see it as a material
> >progression for a covered "self" in this universe?
>
> >>
>
>
>
>
> Well, I hope I find you in a peaceful state.  You do not have to just
> answer posts directed to you.  I just tried to make you feel less
> overworked with all of the comments you are making.

Thank you Brenda.  I am in a peaceful resigned state of mind.

Your descriptions are very well written and very beautiful.  They seem to me
however to describe a) progression of consciousness through various states of being
in this material universe until you become the all or God.   The buddhic plane, to
me is simply the immersion of the consciousness in the divine energy permeating
both  universes, it is neither our natural state or a state to be ultimately
desired.  Ishvara has a limited life span within this universe and when he dies, it
all ends here.  (Withdraws).

The best book I have come across for describing many conclusions re the absolute
truth is "Awakening the Life Force" by Swami Rajarshi Muni. Published by Llewellyn
Publications.    This book gives a very detailed account of the machinery of this
universe and  various yogic conclusions.  I don't agree with any of the
conclusions, nearly every one of them is faulty, short sighted and not the true
goal.  However it is a great work for showing just how easy it is to fall for one
or other of the philosophies and with careful examination and meditation you can
find out how the various conclusions have been arrived at.
If you persevere with certain practices you can have the experiences that brought
forth the conclusions.
Within this book you will find all sorts of conceptual impossibilities.  The truth
is very clear and very plane.  I have explained broadly the best I can within my
limited ability.

Having seen the truth first hand I don't accept any of these others.  It seems to
me that various students, writers, philosophers, yogis, mystics etc will do
anything to make the point that they are ultimately God.  Even though they cannot
answer the very serious questions such  ideas  pose.

I certainly don't want to get into book quoting and setting "books" up as
authorities, especially when I tend not to agree.

The Thirumandiram is published by Babaji Press. They have an iternet site. The
writer is supposedly one of the 18 great Siddhas of the World.   The work was
written a very long time ago and has been translated by a very nice man called
"Marshall Govindan", who has a center near Montreal and who teaches Kriya Yoga.

Sweetness and Light to you.

Got to go now, the loony vans waiting for me.

Allan.