Theos-Talk Archives (July 1998 Message tt00181)

>> When this is accomplished, balance and harmony reign because each new
>> influx of soul power is recognized as being essential to make an impact on
>> the small, lesser lives in the vehicles, creating characteristics in the
>> form which serve man well and allow us to free our attention to new vistas.
>
>
>Unless the term "lesser lives" refers to a material condition, I don't
understand.

Theosophy describes man as having elemental kingdoms living prior to
material existence.  I was referring to life as a thought elemental,
feeling elemental, and etheric elemental as preceding material life as a
mineral, vegetable, animal, etc.  Somehow it is felt that we can effect the
quality of the lesser lives, atomic lives? perhaps by endowing the relics
we are left with on earth with "vibration."  When we take our constitution
down to the cell level, each cell benefitting from being in a human body
for a while before the material enters another form, such as the soil for a
time before it comes forth in a plant, etc.  This level of existence is not
written about very frequently, but our physical manifestation is supposed
to aid the progress of these lesser lives and permit them to reach their
"goal."

Let me break from replying to you for a minute and ask again about the
reading you have done.

I am fascinated with the book which you claimed to contain information
which has proved valuable to you in living.  (I can't even pronounce the
name yet) and was wondering if you perhaps could quote a little from this
book The Thirumandiram by Thirumooler.  Can you tell me a little of the
book's background.  When was it published?  What country is the author
from?   Did Kriya Yogis give comments on this book?

"The King of Elflands Daughter" by Lord Dunsany.
One of my favorites is the Brahma Samhita.
In recent history, I would consider Caitanya Mahaprabu the clearest
exponent of personalist philosophy.]

These books, too, are unfamiliar to me and I'm curiour about their country
of origin.  If you can write about them or quote from them when the
discussion calls for it, I'd certainly love to hear the point of view here.
 I'll try to locate copies of these books also.



>
>> When this soul power recedes, the forms themselves are asked to continue
>> the vibration without the presence of the egoic force.
>
>
>Here I am utterly lost.  Not knowing what is really mean't by Egoic form
or even if we have the same understanding of the term Soul?

  I am suggesting that while the soul exists beyond form, it sends forth
its essence and communicates with the forms in the form world.  The ego
establishes contacts with the bodies and mind of man individually.  The
contact can be equated to breathing, for sake of an example, where egos or
souls project light (perhaps containing coded instructions similar to DNA)
which project activities into the forms.  The souls exert control over the
lower vehicles, let's say evoking an effort at purification.  Well, the
soul's energy finds its way into the bodies and the bodies respond and
begin their work at purification.  Then the soul wishes to put forth
entirely new energies into the vehicles as the purification work is going
fine.  I am suggesting that the first type of soul energy is withdrawn, so
that a new energy can be emitted for the lower forms to work with a new
type of instruction.  When the soul withdraws its instructions to purify,
the lower vehicles have to continue the work, but without the set of Light
Commands being present.  The mind, emotions, and physical body adjust to
accomplishing the work without the presence of an impetus and are
functioning in a manner similar to "performing on their own."  The new type
of soul energy now prods the vehicles into action with a new set of
instructions taking up residence for a while in the bodies.

Anyway this is the idea.  Please let's pause here again as there is
something I would like to ask you again.
When you achieve liberation from this world, will you still connect with
the lives in this world in order to instruct them or give benefits to them
or will all contact with this universe end?


>
>> When the egoic forces, which are love and
>> compassion and light energy, leave, the forms continue, but there's no
>> energy doing the work for them and they find they have to accomplish this

>> without the ease and pleasure they had before.  The forms have to work,
and
>> if they do, they accomplish progressed physical, emotional, or mental
>> states.  The matter and vibration becomes more built by the ego.  Matter
>> acting on its own, like an ego, isn't painful, is it?  So the pain arises
>> from something pleasureful, like love - as part of the egoic energy - being
>> withdrawn.  A mother, too, slowly withdraws her assistance so that her
>> children can accomplish activity on their own.  This isn't so unusual, so
>> just calm down and think.  How does a child learn to walk, except by a
>> letting go of those two little hands?
>
>
>This sound rather nice.  It seems to imply that we are helped up the
planes?    Problem is, I don't really see the point in going any
>higher in this universe.  I can see the point in getting to this human
state from others however.

No.  We are not helped up the planes.  The accomplishment is present
through all three lower planes of the personality, according to the wish
and instruction of the ego.  The result is that we can do without the
intense instruction to accomplish this act as it has been done and will
continue to be done even when the instruction is withdrawn, or so we hope.
New instructions produce additional goals for the bodies to attain to.
Let's use purification again. The ego has to tell me how to continue with
further purifications, because I have reached the limits of ideas through
reading.  I have to think for myself about purification expanding out to
reach others perhaps or to accomplish new purifying activities in addition
to the one's which consumed my attention for 20 years.  It's all done in
the three lower planes and doesn't constitute stepping higher into other
planes.


>> >> Now the Ego can "view" its Self in its sheaths and can experience
"being"

>> >> this way, but the Ego cannot do so (with all of its new unfolding
powers)
>> >> independently of the form and this is a goal, because while the Egos use
>> >> form to experience and learn, they're aim is to retain this coloring
>> >> independently of reincarnation in form.
>
>
>But I can't see this if we have a ever existing perfect vehical for our
"self" in the supernal world?  Although I can see it as a material
>progression for a covered "self" in this universe?

Well, I didn't dream up this material myself.  It is from another's pen, so
for the sake of guessing at the pieces of the puzzle, I will comment.
While the the perfect ego is able to pour forth into forms through
instructions, this may have to be accomplished during the first three races
of man, let's say the last 300 million years on earth.  Once the body was
perfected, it may have received all of the perfect ego to the extent that
the ego was emptied of life color.  Life went admirably for the fourth race
and our existence was as if we truly were sons of God, but then the upward
ascent out of matter began and now the perfect forms of man had to transmit
back to the ego as much of their accomplishment as they are able to
successfully transmit within the time allotted.

>> The way to learn this is for the
>
>> >> egoic energy to withdraw back into the ego, an act associated with pain.
>> >> Yogis are especially attentive to whether their ego is energizing the
form
>> >> or withdrawing from the form. Their concept of non-attachment is
practiced
>> >> so that they can experience existing beyond form. As long as these
energies
>> >> occur in cycles, we are providing Ishvara with time with her children
and
>> >> providing the children time to exist without egoic control. This is the
>> >> highest harmony, but sometimes people don't recognize that Ishvara is at
>> >> work nor that matter can act in a limited sense without constant egoic
>> >> supervision.
>

>Doesn't Ishvara withdraw at the Kalpas end?  Again I am having problems
because of the terms "existing" without form.  As I understand it,
>no form means diffusion?

I am enjoying your seven Kalpas and am curious about how we are near the
end of the sixth Kalpa because this is new information to me.  When all of
the manifested egoic energies are returned to the ego existing on the
buddhic plane, we will be able to exist for a time without form.  It is
diffusion only because we compare it to the separation we operate under
now.  When our energies are returned to the ego at the end of the seventh
race, our human kingdom will be in existence without form.  As a human
kingdom we are currently ascending every cell of our "perfected" bodies to
the point where the ego exists again in the perfection it once had before
the first race when it began putting forth itself into form.  (This is just
a guess.)

>Well I can't understand how something not able to say "I am" that is have
self referal, exists as consciousness. Surely the first primal
>nature of consciouness is self awareness.  If you don't have self
awareness what is there to be aware of something else?I am sorry I just

>cannot answer this question. Call me a stupid fool if you like but I
just can't understand it.

Well, just because we don't experience objects in the form worlds, doesn't
means we can't experience objects in Ishvaric life.  When we draw attention
away from lesser lives, it might be possible that we refocus our attention
on "greater lives" such as the Dhyanic Chohans, and Planetary Spirits, etc.
 This new being becomes an object for our egoic attention and egoic life,
after having absorbed all forms.

Well, I hope I find you in a peaceful state.  You do not have to just
answer posts directed to you.  I just tried to make you feel less
overworked with all of the comments you are making.

Brenda
Visit my webpage at http://www.webspawner.com/users/ascension