Theos-Talk Archives (July 1998 Message tt00144)

you're an evil, uncharitable, heartless hypocrite."

Yesterday I
>About Prayer.
>
>Having read a few of these digests now, I cannot fail to notice that most
writers to
>seem to have serious
>difficulties in comprehending how "God"  is not just an all pervasive and
expansive
>form.
>
>Whilst I agree with the writer on prayer, that one shouldn't really
supplicate the
>almost limitless number of  Angles, gods etc.  This is because these
beings, like us
>are marginal beings. There power and ability extend to this universe of the
material
>planes, almost exclusively.
>
>However the definition of prayer as given is in my view erroneous, although
this
>might be the common understanding.  If so then it is simply a matter of
education.
>
>The main problems seem to be due to the great difficulties in comprehending
the
>absolute as a person and form.  I would therefore ask you to consider this
viewpoint.
>
>I have found that people tend to have a problem with the idea of
> the absolute as a person. They always seem to fall into the trap of
>thinking that the "person" and "form" is an expression of the absolute
>with origin, that is having arisen from.  I believe that the
>"personality" of God is one of limitless consciousness and ultimate
>"individuality".  That is ultimate "self knowing, self referring, self
>conscious"  this includes the infinite expressions or conceptions ever
>existing.  I do not imply that the conceptions or expressions "arose
>from" or had any origin. They in themselves are eternal, beginning's.
>
>I use the term personality, not to limit the absolute or describe a
>series of human like traits but instead to infer self knowing, self
>consciousness and self identification, with limitless qualities that we
>may see as "personal", "approachable" and "trust able".  It is clearly
>silly however to try to limit the absolute with any human reference to
>limited human personality.   It is also impossible to trust anything
>that has no self reference, because it would be a simple automaton.  It
>would also be impossible (for me at least)  to trust anything that has
>no recognizable qualities or that is unapproachable and that is totally
>alien to me.
>
> In my view we have the "same" qualities of the absolute, albeit covered by
this
>alternate
>reality due to our "sin" or "wilfulness".
>
>With regards to "form".  Again most people struggle with this, (I did
>for a long time)  we cannot conceive that the "absolute" can have an
eternal beatific
>form.
>Truly the absolute has an infinite number of  "forms".  I concern
>myself here with the principle "form" of the absolute as the beatific
>person.  Govinda.  If we can understand that this is the "absolutes" or
>"eternals" conception or referral to itself and this conception did not
>arise but simply always existed.  Then we immediately see that God is
>and can be approached just like any person you might know.
>
>One can also see that as no separation or psychic boundary exists between
Govinda
>(or any other ever existent form) and the great eternal sea of the God hood
>and that neither the "forms" nor the "eternal expanse" has superiority,
>one having never given rise to the other, that in truth all the
>splendour and limitless power, qualities etc. can reside in the "form"
>and person.   Therefore the argument that God  cannot be form is based on
>limitations that we as humans place on the idea and not on the
>actuality.   It is also a limitation placed on the Eternal.  How can we
>say that the Eternal cannot have a primal form?  How can we place such a
>
>limitation of the endless bounty, power and consciousness that is God?
>
>Why can we not see that this supreme consciousness has a conception of
>itself as supreme beatific person and that such a conception has always
>existed and has not arisen from the supreme consciousness but is instead
>
>an eternal and integral part of it?
>
>I think our major problem is time.  As humans we always look for this or
>that giving rise to this or that and therefore seek an origin or
>beginning.  This has lead to the many discussions between those who
>believe that the absolute energy is an expansion of a "core" form and
>those that believe that the "form" (which has been perceived by yogis
>and declared by "Himself" as supreme person) is a manifestation of the
>eternal force or energy or consciousness.
>
>My view is that both states are coexistent, neither having given rise to
>the other and that we are simple eternal conceptions as "marginal" or
>companion beings.
>
>By advancing ourselves within the vast matrix of planes within this
"alternate"
>universe we end up
>with all sorts of errors.  We meet, gods, angels, devils etc., eventually
realize
>that they too are limited and at the end of a Kalpa,
>disappear along with everything else.  We then conclude that all these
forms are
>illusions because we cannot see past the divine light that rides piggy back
and
>through everything in this universe.  Bewildered by this we think that the
light is
>all or absolute and that all forms are an expression of it.  As the
consciousness of
>the absolute can be touch by contact with the light, we then conclude that
this is
>the final or complete expression of reality and that everything else is a
construct
>or illusion.  Identifying with this blissful consciousness and light we
exult in our
>"god hood" or completeness (we are all too ready to believe we are god) and
enter
>into the Brahmajoti, or Nirvana, or Cosmic consciousness.  This however is
simply
>"cradle consciousness", it is neither complete relegation or liberation.
It is a
>fools dream and this serious and dangerous "yogic error" will have us
crashing out of
>this state at the end of a Kalpa into nescience.  This state is the life
blood and
>aim of many esoteric schools.  It is an error of colossal proportions and
carries the
>most grievous consequences possible to the soul.
>
>If however we can wake up, we will realize that this blissful state, that
overwhelms
>us and fills us,  that identifies with us and us with it, is not our
natural state
>and it is NOT where we are from.  The situation is a bit like a computer
chip
>suddenly realizing it is part of a computer, having access to the power and
memory of
>the computer and then concluding that IT is the entire computer.  Whilst
the chip is
>a part of the synergistic whole, the chip remains individual from the
computer and is
>not the whole.
>This may not be a good analogy but there you go.
>
>Our aim should be to REMEMBER WHO WE ARE, REMEMBER WHERE WE ARE FROM,
REMEMBER HOW WE
>GOT HERE AND WHY AND SUPREMELY IMPORTANTLY REMEMBER OUR ETERNAL
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE
>BEATIFIC FORM AND PERSON OF GOD, WHICH EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS UNIQUE
TO
>OURSELVES.
>
>In this state of divine remembrance we desire to return home.  Once we know
the above
>the question then is how?
>
>There is only one way and because we are all deluded into self god hood,
most cannot
>and will not accept it.  They won't even like the fact that there is only
one way.
>Other endeavours can only get you home, by way of this one way.  Whilst the
way is
>one however the culture and application may be different.   The way is
universal, the
>way is easy the way is practised world wide, though often in the wrong way
or not
>sincerely.  It is simple a question of desire and devotion.  We desire to
go home, we
>desire to return to God and we re-kindle our eternal love and devotion to
God.  Only
>devotion and love of God can carry us across this dangerous ocean of
material life.
>God promised that if we devote ourselves to him, fix our mind on him and
aim to
>return to him, he will give us what we lack to achieve our goal.  God does
this out
>of love for us, he does not separate himself from us nor does he stop us
returning.
>We manage all that on our own.  It is our wilfulness, stubbornness,
illusion of self
>god hood that keep us from our souls ultimate liberation and satisfaction.
It is our
>ego's only, that cannot for a minute accept that there is ANYTHING that may
be bigger
>and more powerful and supreme than we.  So we concoct all sorts of
impersonal
>foolishness, illusionary ideas and ideas of merging with the great ocean,
nirvanic
>states and other such rot.  Anything, anything at all, so that we do not
have to
>accept that we are marginal, companion beings.  It is this sin of
consciousness that
>got us into this universe in the first place and it is this sin that keep
us here.
>We are stuck here by our OWN WILL AND DESIRE.  We suffer because we compete
with the
>universe and our brethren for dominance.
>
>We may become the greatest most powerful Yogi in the entire complex of this
Prakti
>universe but when it ends. What then?
>
>We may sit as demi gods, developing and creating worlds, creating forms for
souls to
>inhabit, controlling and influencing biological evolution across galaxies
of planets
>and heavenly realms.  We may rule supreme over Prakti, bending it to our
will,
>performing great miracles.  Oh boy don't we really love Saurons Ring!
Exalted at
>last above all, all powerful, compassionate I, master of millions of
worlds, non
>beyond, non greater!  Who has given greater bounty to the worlds, who has
created the
>most beautiful worlds and more beautiful forms.  I, I, I.   Greatest god,
Brahma
>above all brahma, I the brahma with a million heads! My senses and
extensions going
>through myriad worlds, dimensions and planes of Being.  When has the
universe seen
>the like of ME.
>
>Until we can give up the above desire and nonsense, until we see ourselves
for the
>fools we are....what chance have we?  Ego-centric, self important fools is
what we
>all are.
>
>The supreme person said to me before this series of Kalpa's began.  "Please
don't
>go".  YET I AM HERE.  What a tremendous fool I am! How could I?  How could
I leave
>the one who loves me more than any other can?  How could I leave a universe
of
>endless experience, pleasure and companionship with the divine person?
>
>All because I allowed the possibility of the illusion of ME as the whole,
of me as
>the absolute. This possibility, this thought arising, simply because it
could.  But I
>chose to go along with it, I chose to enter and master the magnificent
Prakti
>universe made just to satisfy my experience.  As all other souls were just
little
>parts of me anyway and as I was god, I could stop the prakti universe at
any time and
>get out!
>
>Oh boy.  What a monumental fool I am and have been. This little span of
time in
>prakti (at least it seemed a little span from the eternal realm) is longer
than I
>thought.  Now I realize the mistake, late very late  and nescience
threatens!  So
>many errors, so many awful errors.  I surrender at last, I want to go home.
>
>Devotion is the key, "it is the only way the only way."  (Caitanya
Mahaprabu).
>
>Prayer is not simple supplication.  It is an outcry of the soul to God, it
is an
>outpouring of Love and sorrow.  It is the beginning of forgiveness and the
souls
>healing.  It is the remembrance of self,  of God of Love and of eternal
life.  It is
>our one hope, the last hope of mankind and all conditional beings.  To
raise
>ourselves in songs of love and praise and longing for God and home.  It is
the Bhajan
>of the heart.   The sweetness of being and the fulfilment of the hearts
desire.  It
>is the ray of salvation coming from the heart of the Jesus.  The nectar of
devotion
>itself.  It is the never-ending heart song of passion and the realization
of the
>self.
>
>Samadhi dawns  and Gods stands before us face to face, free at last from
illusion
>with knowledge of our soul, we sing we divine prayer our joy, passion and
love of the
>supreme beatific person.
>
>The Supreme has limitless ever existing, non arising forms, each presiding
over
>his/her eternal beatific world in the universe of the eternal spiritual
sky.
>
>Limitless beyond number they are.   Here you will find Govinda, Krishna,
Maridu
>Vanasani and others.  All ever existing, eternal perfect, complete non
arising self
>identifications of the absolute.  Each world inhabited by millions of
>marginal/companion beings.  Each with world with it's own unique qualities.
Govinda
>showing giving us the essence of primordial being,  Krishna and Radha
giving us the
>all attractive love of male/female togetherness.  Maridu Vanasani, who
mercifully
>revealed herself to me, giving us the essence of female beauty,
attractiveness and
>sensuality.
>
>These forms are Eternal and complete. They are not manifestations, they did
not come
>into being and there is no separation in knowledge or power between the
form and the
>formless or "universal state" of the absolute. Each form is THE ABSOLUTE.
Each form
>is absolute person.  The absolute eternally identified as person
personified.  Self
>referral is Person.  Without self referral there is nothing.  So if you
reduce to the
>ABSOLUTE to force only without person. Then it is just a machine.
>
>If you reduce the absolute to force without eternal ever existing self
referral
>forms, you place beginnings and or illusionary natures on the forms that do
exist and
>thereby make the ABSOLUTE an inconstant, changeable, non identifiable force
subject
>to self illusion.  You make this universe no more than a play ground for
the absolute
>and you cannot explain reasonably why WE cannot get out easily or why when
one
>achieves liberation we all don't.  If you believe that the highest masters
and
>bodhisattvas are liberated beings, who have become the all and if we, each
of us is
>the all, why don't we all achieve liberation as soon as one does?   They
can't get us
>out because they are not us and we are not them. They can't get us out
because they
>are not absolute and they are SUBJECT to the ABSOLUTE.  All they can do is
lead you
>with them into YOGIC ERROR.
>
>The mind is like a mirror covered with dust.  We look into the mirror and
it is
>unclear.  We clean the mirror, then what do we see?   Well that depends on
the focus
>of our minds.  All sorts of things can be seen in a mirror, many
reflections of the
>mind only.
>
>The greatest Yogis, such as Narada Muni, Vyasa and Jesus all identify with
God as
>person, all recommend simple devotion and good living.  Caitanya Mahaprabhu
who
>defeated the greatest impersonalist thinkers of his time says the same.
There is no
>other way.  You can't go where you don't want to and refuse to go.  It is
that
>simple. If you practise this simple way you will eventually remember and
reform your
>relationship with God.
>
>Other great Yogis, deep in trance have seen/experienced all the other
"conclusions"
>re the divine and seeing that they were not complete, insisted stubbornly
on the
>truth and continued, not falling into the traps of self god hood, nihilism,
>impersonalism or anything else.  Until at the last, God appeared to them in
form and
>declared the truth to them.
>
>This truth, so simple yet so profound and so exquisitely beautiful is yet
so hard for
>most to even contemplate.
>
>I am bemused but not surprised that almost all esoteric schools teach what
the
>greatest saints consider as errors.
>
>Simply chanting the names of god with love and devotion, enquiring about
him, reading
>about him, hearing about him.  Trying to approach him in meditation.  These
are the
>ways.  I use the term "him" but there are countless female ever existing
supreme
>forms as well.  Including the fabulously beautiful and sensual Maridu
Vanisani  (her
>relationship to Krishna is the Supernal world is as Sister). She is in
effect a
>female Krishna.
>
>In danger of boring you all to death.  I will sign off here.  I apologize
in advance
>if my passion offends anyone.  I also know that many of you will be
>"impersonalists".  However so much is written about impersonalism, it is
about some
>words about the Person of God appeared.
>
>
>
>Allan.
>
>
>Allan.
>
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