Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00407)

May 22nd 1998

        Re:  Astral travel, visions, plane, etc...

Dear Annette:

I was not able to answer yours in full as I had an appointment to
make, so let me resume.

As to astral travel, etc. some have that facility apparently from
birth.  And others (like me) are born with a great wariness in
regard to that area of our environment.  I know some of what is
said about it.  I have thought about that information.  I can
also see the reasons for the issuing of cautions against forcing
one's way into it out of curiosity, or some other desire for
entertainment, or excitement, or of securing some personal power
or information that will give them an edge over others not so
fortunate.  In my opinion the risks outweigh any possible benefit
that I see in doing that.  So I abstain.  Of one thing I am quite
certain, and that is the Law of Karma will prevail in any and all
cases.  So in my ignorance, why should I invite some calamity
which I cannot foresee ?

What I hear or read of the adventures of others tends to confirm
my wariness.  I have posted notes on Bulwer-Lytton's books:
ZANONI, and A STRANGE STORY.  If you have not read them, you
could do so, and either be entertained or repelled by the
problems that the characters faced there in dealing with the
astral realm and its living characters there.  Similarly, in ISIS
UNVEILED, HPB gives us a bird's eye-view of many of the events
and possibilities that flow from the "invisible astral plane"
which surrounds and inter-penetrates our earth and each one of
us.

Theosophy includes information about the "astral plane, realms,
and the inhabitants thereof."  Those who have had NDE (Near Death
Experiences) have proved to themselves that at least part of what
was taught in 1875-1891 is a fact.  They have been through the
experience.  Investigation into "reincarnation stories," form
another chapter in the business of proving at least some of the
aspects of theosophical teaching.  And to add to this, many have
had experiences parallel to your own, some delightful, and others
that have terrified them.

Mme. Blavatsky indeed could penetrate those veils at will.  She
was an Adept.  Of herself she wrote to her family and spoke to
others of her early years when she struggled to control her own
tendencies to enter the astral ream without being able to control
herself or it. The information that she has provided us is the
basis that I, for one, use.   I gather that one ought not to
adventure into that realm unless there is a very good reason to
do so.  Next, one ought to be morally pure so as to repel some of
the worst denizens of those places.

The information is to be found (for us who do not "travel") in
ISIS and in some of her other books and articles.

Although you may consider me, and others as dependent on "book"
knowledge and therefore, information at "second hand,"  we (at
least speaking for myself) would rather play it "safe."

This is, please, not being judgmental, but only stating a fact.
If I am told that a fire is hot, I need not stick my hand in it
to prove the fact.  If I am told that there is danger in the
"astral plane," and cannot value it, since I have not developed
the equipment ( also, I am not curious), why should I risk my
life, sanity, or whatever, by jumping, unprepared, into an
adventure I know I am unprepared for ?

You evidently are quite at ease there, and so you speak from that
point of view.  I speak from mine, of part knowledge.  Other
report having met frightening things they could not control or
handle.  Some departments of Science Fiction are full of this
kind of thing.  None of them give any facts, nor do they speak of
any process or method of establishing invulnerability and control
when in that environment.

You may say to me that certain bodies claim to have secret
knowledge on the how, and the why of handling these things.  I
have been fortunate enough to discuss such matters with them, and
have found that they really have very scanty knowledge as
compared to the old Indians (of India, Tibet, Mongolia, etc...)
or even of their modern descendents.

And that seems to be the jumble of information available -- I
also go to bookstores and look over the titles there, as well as
browse in the reports said to be from this or that "authority."
Much often is hearsay and pretense -- and in that I can be
accused of being judgmental.  But, I say:  "It's my 'skin' that's
up for risking.  and I want to be sure that it stays 'whole.'"

I consider what I have learned from Theosophy to be reasonable
and valuable.  I have been testing it for the past 50 or so
years, and continue to do so.  So far it has proved to be quite
accurate.  And if it says: " beware ! "  I take it as a friendly
warning.

Have you read through ISIS ?  Do you happen to have a copy of THE
OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY  by W. q. Judge ?  If so, then in the Ocean,
look again through the chapters 4, 5, 6, 12, 16, 17. -- not too
much to scan, but very valuable, I think, insofar as it gives an
overview of the subject.

As to the actual mixture of past, present and future.  The astral
light in one part is a repository for Karma -- the karma of every
being is recorded there -- so the view of anyone's past is
available to those who have the power to view it.  Locked up in
that "past" are the logical and lawful seeds of the "future."
Again, those who have the "power," and when there is need, may
envisage anyone's probable future.  Again, I am not curious about
that, although I find that many people are.  [ I find that we all
fear "exposure."  We all know that there are many of our secret
thought and feelings that we are not proud of.  We hide them from
others, and sometimes from our selves.  We may even think of it
as our "evil self."  But it is part of us.  As I understand it it
is necessary to purify and cleanse ourselves of such things.  I
am not going to go into details.  But, psychologically, those
"evil" constructs of ours are very clever at concealing
themselves and at sustaining their own existence.  It is of such
things that the lower planes of the astral light are formed.  The
superior planes of the Astral  Light are the ones that we ought
to be able to contact, if any contact is at all to be made.
 Is it not worthwhile remembering that all beings bathe in the
universal light of the One Spirit ?  And cannot we visualize this
"speck" of inner "Spirit" as our Higher Self, as our Conscience
? ]

>From that point of view we live in an environment that is not
only "linear" in one sense, but has "sphericity" in terms of time
and space, also.  This is the result of the action of Law, and
the operation within that frame-work of all those beings that
live and work there and here.

WE, as human mind-beings are in the process of transforming our
baser self into an angelic being, into our spiritual self.  If
this is true, then our labor ought to be directed at that aspect
of the process, and that is strenuous work.

I offer these ideas to you to consider and see if there is any
merit in them.

Best wishes to you ,                Dallas

> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 8:00 AM
> From: "Annette Rivington" <libidium@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: Theosophical Doctrines (HPB)

>Hi Dallas:
>Thanks for the story about HPB and the history stuff.
>As usual I can't disagree with your thrust, but you left out
Atlantis
>and earlier "philosophies", and your method seems to be rooted
in linear
>time and cause and effect :)
>
>The main difference I perceive with the approach of the majority
of list
>members and that of people and methods to which I gravitate, is
that you
>guys rely heavily on books, the recorded filtering and opinion
in the
>physical of those mostly passed over, and we tend to get
messages,
>insights, memories and logical conclusions from experiencing
connection
>with nature, spirits, ourselves travelling in space and time,
and from
>experiencing the raw energy of life.
>
>It's sort of like the difference between saying either
>1.   here's this vast body of evidence, including what appears
to be
>recountings from extremely knowlegable persons, to prove it must
be so
>2.  been there, done that and know it is so, and thanks for
reminding me
>
>The last time I travelled astrally, I received this message:
>"Until you release these preconceived ideas of what should be,
you will
>not experience what is."
>This experience was my struggle, my process and my instruction
at this
>point to help me understand and move on from the frustration of
being
>bounded and fearful.
>Respectfully I propose that all of HPB's writings were her
struggle, her
>experiences and her instruction in the same process.
>Books say to me: "here's a process that I used, it worked for
me, maybe
>it could work for you".
>
>I no longer struggle with a pragmatic process of proof,
historical
>verification, memorization - there simply isn't time.  The
process of
>comparison, weighing, and common sense happens in a split second
whether
>I consciously do it or not, and I no longer arrest that process.
>Also, when I hear or read something and immediately think, "I
know that
>already, in some sense", I no longer deny that fact.
>
>It's not that I discount the book learning, discipline training
>methods.  It's just that I think they are only parts of a vast
battery
>of tools we have and this toolbox includes travelling in time
and space,
>light and deep trance, and talking to trees and animals.
>
>Initially I was egotistical and thought I was moving forward.
Now I
>know I am going back to the source and the future.
>
>Can you see it from my perspective too?
>Blessings
>Annette