Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00312)

April 16th

Dear Jerry:

Your comments of the 14th:

A MORAL PLANE - a phrase I devised deliberately, as it (to me)
includes the circumstance of the moment, and the potential of our
choices which acting on our environment, eventually will
react from it to us, and thus form the environment, at some time, of
our future. Also, our future is not isolated from the rest, but
is a joint affair. We act on others, and they act on us. We
would not be alive if this were not so, as we draw our physical
life from all the elements (and the humans, and the rest of
Nature's kingdoms, etc...) around us that sustain, nourish and
shelter us. It is a cooperative and interactive universe/world
that we live in.

To my mind this is an important link, missed so far in most
current considerations, as it serves along with "thought" to link
our personal and physical "self" to the impersonal, ideal, and
"Higher Self." -- and, that is also a "part" of "us."

This is a useless speculation for one who thinks that with the
death of the "objective" body there is an end to existence.

But, for those who have assured themselves of a continued
"subjective" existence, independent of the physical body-base,
this is valuable.

 A good understanding of the 7 "principles" as described by HPB
 in the KEY ] helped me to grasp at this concept. But, I admit
it took years of thinking, and "chewing" on the concept to really
grasp its possibility, then its probability, and then its
actuality [ taking a plurality of NDE - Near Death Experiences ]
into account.

If all we feel, think and do reacts on our environment, then we
impress it/them/those with our feelings/thoughts -- and they,
being so impressed, react eventually on us. [ This is the
doctrine of the 'skandhas' -- the life-atoms, of which the whole
of Nature (and every physical body) is made. Science, for
instance teaches that the physical body we live in is wholly
replaced every 7 years, and in fact about 98% of it is replaced
by other atoms/molecules each year ! ]

That is valuable if we agree, as a preliminary, that the universe
forms a living, and interactive WHOLE. This Whole runs under ONE
LAW, and its many departmental and specific individual Laws,
which are just, fair, immutable -- for ALL. And, inescapably,
results follow causes measure-for-measure. If those are not our
joint considerations, there are going to be differences in
thought and perspective.

What I am trying to say is that a "moral plane" (or environment)
interpenetrates all things physical, and is an aspect of
sensitive Nature which we cannot escape. It is as though our
motives had the power of impressing the electro-magnetic
emanations that constantly from from us to others. Our motives
form the "moral plane" I was writing about.

For me it is not a matter of "belief," but of reasoned certainty.
for you it may well be speculative, or even repugnant -- as this
implies that one's "freedom" appears to be constrained and
restricted externally. But once that one realizes that we have
made (by our motives) our own shackles, bars and circumstances,
one becomes very careful (in view of the future) of what one
chooses to do. The essentiality of "needs" over "wants" becomes
clearer.

========================

LIFE/DEATH LIGHT/DARKNESS the "pairs of opposites"

I don't think we can do away with these contrasts. But we notice
them, and therefore we have the power to understand them. It
indicates to me that there is something in our consciousness
which is "independent" of either, or both of them, and therefore
is in the position of an "Observer," as well as a "referee" over
the choices that we make.

I do agree and think that these "pairs" come into manifestation
simultaneously, but essentially, there is a 3rd factor that
simultaneously arises, and that is: the POWER TO OBSERVE THEM.
And that to me is more important than the ceaseless vibrations of
contrasts. I believe that this independent Power resides in and
is an aspect of our Minds. It is one of its faculties, and has
nothing to do with the physical brain, which is only its
instrument. Did you ever read HPB's valuable article:
PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION (Lucifer Oct. Nov. 1890) ?

================================

KARMA and a PERSONAL GOD

I would say that there is a wide difference. We are not offended
by the Sun -- it gives light and life to all living forms. You
can call it a "fact," and I a "law," but that does not do away
with the Sun.

Karma is that law of interaction whereby the elctro-magnetic
impact of our feelings and thoughts impress the life-atoms around
us, of which our bodies, and Nature is made. That impress is
actual, and it wither improves or retards and mutilates the
life-power resident in each such "life-atom." These are the
components of our bodies (visible and invisible) and of all
beings around us. Those come and go all the time, in, through,
and around us.

It would be normal and reasonable to assume that they are either
improved or degraded by the quality of the feelings, thoughts and
use to which we put them. There are no "hiding places: in
nature into which things we abuse can be shoved, hidden or
concealed. (Even if the priests will accept your money to do
this ! And they don't say how ! ) The idea of universal fair,
and just karma is that we get back exactly what we put into any
project or decision. Therefore the result is obvious: The
better you live, the better results you will get. But, the
decision to lead a better life has to include all the poor
decisions we may have made over many past lives -- so it may be a
while before the "good" shows up tangibly. Did you ever read
HPB's article:
KARMIC VISIONS (Lucifer, June 1888) ?

As far as I am concerned there is no "God" that can, for whatever
reason, void all the evil I may have done, or the mistakes I have
made. That is my debt, and also there is the concept that that I
will receive as my due, all the 'good' that I deserve for
cooperative and generous actions.

============================

I value Theosophy because it gives such a comprehensive and sound
basis in the explanation of all living, including mine.

 Hope this makes clearer some of my ideas. Dallas

>From: "Jerry Schueler" <gschueler@netgsi.com>
>Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 7:08 PM
>Subject: Re:Re: The "Eternal Present: and KARMA

>>Theosophy introduces the concept that universal Law (Karma)
>>operates on the moral plane (which is not defined, though the
>>legislation efforts of most countries try to make those tenets
of
>>behavior and fairness between persons precise, and, usually
>>fail).
>>
>
>I personally don't believe in a "moral plane" but who knows?
>I see karma as "a" universal law, not "the" universal law.
>Maybe thats our problem?
>
>>I am of the persuasion that the Inner Self, is that "immortal"
>>and that the incarnated mind/soul is one of the actors most
>>engaged in assuring itself of the actuality of evolution and
all
>>its many ramifications, rules, regulations, etc... So that
>>Universality and Impersonality, as well as Compassion and
>>Generosity would be the best ideals to try to use.
>>
>
>Can could any theosophist argue with this?
>
>>Now, if everything would be a "Chaos," then what would be the
>>purpose to waste time and energy on seeking to make order or
>>sense out of it?
>
>Thats like asking whats the purpose of life when it always ends
>in death? I don't think such a question has any rational/logical
>answer. Does light/order rise up from darkness/chaos, or is it
>the other way around? Or do, perhaps, they come into existence
>together?
>
>>Maybe that is the source of adopting a
>>"personal God," which by being placed "outside" of the Universe
>>as its "Regent," gives us a sense of fatalism and
>>irresponsibility. How much harder, then is it to adopt the
>>concept of continuing and very actual self-responsibility ?
>>
>
>But I can't see much difference between God and Karma the
>way you seem to want to define Karma. "Its your karma" is
>not far from "Its God's will." Neither make much sense to me,
>and both are out of my hands to do much about (prayer and
>good deeds perhaps, but these lack self-responsibility and
>play on feeding the ego).
>
>Jerry S.
>
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