Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00098)

At 09:24 PM 4/6/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Even a 1000 scholars cannot know what is true. They can all be wrong.
>>Whatever concept we have of Masters are just our ideas and perhaps
>>speculation of them. One who is searching for Truth is going to wherever
>>that search is going to lead us, if we are serious about Truth and
>>everything else is only secondary. As regards some who think he rebelled
>>against his Guru, only Krishnamurti can know whether this is true or not.
>>Again, Sri Ram, one of the past presidents of TS, once commented the World
>>Teacher did not the way we expected. Only time can tell, as I already had
>>stated.
>
>What would be the tell tale signs you are looking for in the future? The
>Masters coming out and giving their approval? A consensus among
>theosophists? A successful world wide movement based on K's teachings? I
>think we can get pretty far already by comparing K's teachings with HPB and
>by listening to what I believe the Masters already gave as evaluation
>through Scott, Anrias, possibly Ballard and Prophet. I think they are
>right, not because I merely believe them and give them authority, but
>because their words resonate with me powerfully as true after having spend
>many years intimately with K's teachings on a day to day basis.

The only tell tale sign I would be looking for would not be some one else's
confirmation. If K's teachings have any large scale favorable effect on a
large number of people, then one can say his teaching has helped many. It
is going to be impossible to tell with any certainty about K's spiritual
stature or if any other entity used him for the teachings.

>
>>On another note, in the 1986 Convention Lecture, Radha Burnier, President
>>of TS(Adyar) stated that every spiritual organization like TS did not
>>survive over a century and that the fact TS has survived a century can be
>>attributed to Krishnamurti's approach of questioning every belief and idea
>>and concept we hold. This coming from Mrs. Burnier who has been at the
>>center of action at Adyar all her life must be based on her personal
>>experience and observation.
>
>Well there might be another reading of the events: CWL for example was
>afraid that some actions by Annie Besant and Krishnamurti could have
>destroyed the TS. Annie Besant for example came out into the open in 1925
>with--according to CWL--inauthentic messages from Masters coming through
>Wedgewood. In these messages the Masters were appointing apostles and were
>giving all kind of other instructions. K did not buy them, nor did CWL, but
>they did not voice their dissent openly. CWL thought also that many of the
>statements made by K from 1927 on were very subversive of not only the
>project of the 'coming', but also of the TS. Personally I think that K's
>failure to qualify for vehicle for Maitreya and his denouncements of the
>Masters and theosophy, created so much confusion within theosophical circles
>that it started the decline of the TS. That the TS did not fold completely
>is not due to K challenging beliefs and concepts, but to the fact that it
>was already a viable organization with a body of very relevant literature
>and the backing of the Masters. Rather than vitalizing the TS I am afraid
>that the teachings of K sap its strength. The TS is not aware of this,
>because it is still in a state of shock and denial regarding what really
>happened. I apologize for this statement for it is not a nice one and looks
>a little 'ad hominem.'

No one can be sure if K did or did not qualify as a vehicle for Maitreya,
and only possibly K knows what did happen and he never discussed this
issue. There were several occasions when this issue was raised by many who
were close to him, I believe he always stated that we would address it
later, which was his nice way of saying that he does or cannot discuss it.

It is also a fact that when K started to speaking, there was none of his
stature nor charisma in the Theosophical Society -- even today we do not
have any nor do I see any in the horizon -- we had and have many scholars
but none anywhere close to his stature, at least it in my humble opinion.
Others may not agree. The leadership does have an effect on the growth of
membership. The steady downward slide in membership worldwide since K's
"Truth is a Pathless Land" statement is still continuing with no end in
sight, It could be that the work of TS is over and that may be its destiny,
who knows.

Again, I will keep my mind open and hopefully in 1000 years we will get a
better view if K's philosophy changed the world or not.

>Even so I do think it is an important idea.
>
>Govert
>
It is the open discussion of all our ideas that would help us to keep an
open mind.

Thanks for your feedback.

mkr