Theos-Talk Archives (December 1997 Message tt00001)

At 10:29 AM 12/6/97 EST, BJack5259 wrote:
>Gentlemen:
>    As an inveterate "lurker", I don't really know at which point to jump
into
>this discussion, especially after not reading the postings for a few days.
>However, I would like to point out a few things with reference to the
>discussion about Krishnamurti.

   Your post is very welcome and is timely.

>     It seems to me that Krishnamurti (hereinafter "K") was perhaps the
>pivotal character in the TS from the time of his discovery - as Besant and
>Leadbeater's decisions with reference to him and his perceived role as a
>vehicle for the World Teacher transformed the TS (Adyar) of the 1920s and
>1930s.  K's rejection of that role was devastating to the TS (Adyar), as it
>seemed thereafter to have lost its goals, and went into seclusion, one from
>which it may not yet have recovered.

       From the time K started lecturing, IMHO, there has never been any
Theosophical leader of his stature till today and I don't see anyone on the
horizon either. This is in spite of several scholars with high academic
degrees. Could it be that there was to be no "competition" for him when he
was spreading his msg.

>     Cyril Scott wrote a very interesting book "The Initiate in the Dark
>Cycle",  in the 30's purportedly giving a Master's reaction to K's
>renunciation of the TS and all similar organizations.  Who knows if it is
>true, but it does make some interesting points.

It is very interesting to note that not a single leader of TS(Adyar) has
ever criticised K or his teachings to date. On the contrary, in the
Convention Lecture in 1986, President Radha Burnier clearly stated that it
is her judgement that K's thrust on questioning everything might have been
saved the TS(Adyar) in as much as many such organizations never lasted over
a century due to the natural gravitation into a dogmatic creed. As recently
as a couple of months ago Radha Burnier presided over a function in Madras
where a translation of K's Book into the regional language of Tamil was
released.

One of the past Presidents, Sri Ram, did comment that perhaps the World
Teacher did not manifest in that way everyone expected. I was the
beneficiary of the very open minded policy of Sri Ram who saw to it that
the TS International Convention schedule did not conflict with the speaking
schedule of K who used to speak across the river from TS HQ at Adyar. As a
matter of fact, most of the attendees at the TS Convention did attend K's
lectures. I myself attended K's lectures when I went to attend TS
International Convention. And I did greatly benefit from the introduction
to K.

>     I recently read another book about K, Radha's Sloss, "Lives in the
Shadow
>with J. Krishnamurti", which gave some insight into the private life of K,
and
>revealed his very humanness, and the inherent contradictions of his private
>life and public persona.   The book, which I understand from some old time TS
>members who knew him personally treats him very gently,  should be read by
>those who wish to deify the man rather than understand his teachings.

    Anyone wishing to get a good historical and personal view of K may have
to read the following books:

1. Candles in the Sun -- Emily Lutyens.
2. Is this Theosophy? -- Ernest Wood
2. Biographies by Mary Lutyens.
3. Biography by Pupul Jayakar.
4. Krishnamurti and the Rajagopals -- Mary Lutyens.
5. The Light of Krishnamurti -- Gabriele Blackburn.

The book by Wood, contains some very valuable information for anyone
interested in K and his teachings. It is one of the rarest books and is
extremely difficult to find. (If anyone cannot locate it, e-mail me).

The book (4) especially addresses some of the aspects of K's approach to
spirituality and also in a very detailed manner points out the factual
inaccuracies and erroneous conclusions reached by Radha Sloss, who it
appears to be trying her best to defend her father who was the business
manager of K. I will go into further detail on a couple of very important
issues discussed in this book (4).


>     I have thought for some time that K taught nothing new (and I don't
>believe that he ever claimed to teach anything new) but merely restated very
>well precepts of the path of Vedanta.  It also appears that he centered his
>public teachings on those points of the Ancient Wisdom most appropriate for
>those few aspirants who had transcended the need for teachers or
>organizations.  While this is a valid and time-honored truth, it is for the
>few and not the many, and to consider it "The Truth" for the many, is to
>misunderstand it, and to invite spiritual confustion and frustration.

HPB, as I recall, has clearly stated that there is nothing new under the
Sun. So I don't think anyone should expect anything "new" in what K spoke
and wrote about. From a personal point of view, I think his writings and
lectures seem to motivate men and women to action instead of theorizing. At
least this happened to me after decades of exposure to traditional theosophy.

>    Another point while I am logged on - This discussion about the necessity
>of organizations begs the question - which seems to avoid the fact that there
>are many paths for the spiritual develop of many types of souls, most of whom
>need estoteric organizations for fellowship and encouragement, if not for
>spiritual direction.  Religious fundamentalism, with all its difficulties, is
>a necessary stage of spiritual development analogous to Piagets (SIC?) theory
>of the emotional development of  children.

K tried to explain that organizations are needed for mechanical physical or
intellectual matters. When you deal with matters beyond mind, he seems to
feel that any organization is a hinderance. Without agreeing or
disagreeing, this is something that each one may have to investigate for
himself/herself without taking somebody else's word or opinion. Also in
most instances, organizations, especially the leadership try to control
flow of information and regulate action thru various means, usually by some
form of brain washing and/or fear in this world or the next.

>     As a parent,  I have had to understand and respect the different levels
>of my children's development - as personally frustrating as that may have
been
>at times.
>Spiritual seekers are no different.  To say that the fundamentalist, with his
>dominating need for organization  and apparent "us versus them" mentality, is
>qualitatively worse than the solitary mystic who taps directly into "cosmic
>consciousness" is making the same error as the person who says that a
>elementary school student is worse than a college student.   Each is at their
>own level of development and we should see that the elementary student, with
>all his immaturities, is the merely the college student of the future.
>    My point is that in the spiritual realm, like life, "one size" doesn't
fit
>all, and some people presently need greater structure and organization that
>others, and there is nothing ultimately wrong with that.  K , a very human
>person with great spiritual insight, taught a valid teaching, but it only
fits
>the few who are ready for it.  Not to recognize this limitation and to try to
>make it a "world teaching" by one who himself rejected the very concept,
is to
>miss K's point.

I am very glad that this point was mentioned.

I do not know how many are aware of the events that took place in TS(Adyar)
after K made his famous "Truth is a Pathless Land" statement and disbanded
all the organizations he was involved with.

It is very well known that Annie Besant had total confidence in K's
decisions. So soon after K disbanding the Order of the Star of East, Annie
Besant, as the Head of the Esoteric Section shut it down. Yes, she did shut
it down. Guess what happened. Most of the members of the Esoteric Section
could not self control and self police themselves. (I guess it is in the
human nature that we all feel comfortable that someone lays down the rules
and supervises us!!!) So some of her close associates went to her and
requested her to re-open the Esoteric Section, which she did. All this took
place at a time when she was extremely popular within TS(Adyar) as well as
membership had great confidence in her judgement. Also it should be kept in
mind that every member of the Esoteric Section was pledged to her personally.


>    Sorry about the length and I don't have time to edit.
>   Brant Jackson
>
>
      Sorry about the long reply. There are a couple of things that need to
be discussed in a separate msg.


MKR